Reverb a component of tone?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Jun 2005 6:38 am

I was working on a pre-recorded track the other day and I decided to add some echo to it. I timed the echo so that it was eight notes right on the beat. It was a very cool effect.

Then it came to a part in the arragement that was a chromatic walkup - E F F# G - in eighth notes. What a mess! This walkup is part of the "hook" of the tune so I had to abandon the echo idea.

I usually use a "touch" of reverb. The spring reverbs in my Boogie and Webb amps do sound nice, but my favorite is in a Lexicon MPX-100. It adds a roundness to the tone that I like, especially on ballads. I think if you can "notice" the reverb, you're using too much of it. (Same with compression, by the way.) Echo was designed to be noticed. Sweeten to taste.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 13 Jun 2005 11:22 am

Reverb has absolutly NOTHING to do with sustain, no idea why one would think that.

For the instrument's intrinsic sustain, I agree, but reverb(eration) is a component of how long a note is heard. The instrument sustain is one component, but depending on the room, the delays and reflections that cause reverberation can add significantly to the length of time you hear a note that has long died on the guitar. Everyone's played in a reverb chamber I'm sure

Given that electronic reverb tries to simulate that same live effect, I think the answer to Jeff's question of how it affects tone I'd say depends...

1) if the amp reverb is analog, I know some tone is changed (to my ear) when reverb is used. Don't know why, I'm not a EE.
2) if the amp has digital reverb and the algorithm is accurate for a given space, yes it absolutely could change tone! Since in a live space, reflective surfaces, absorbant surfaces, and frequency room modes all contribute to the tone that reaches your ears.
3) live gigs? the spaces indoors and out absolutly affect the tone that reaches our ears due to surface reflection and absorption, and even heat and humidity. And therefore affect the tone of recordings from decades ago, and today. (yet another classic reason to close mic Jeff - mitigate room modes and room reverb

It's often overused, but I like a touch of reverb!

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Chris Kennison
Colorado

Paul Honeycutt · Post by **Paul Honeycutt** » 18 Jun 2005 10:22 pm

Chris, were you using reverb on your steel on Friday? I thought you were going for the "pre-reverb" sound on your steel. Then again, I'm used to pedal steel players who use quite a bit of reverb so maybe compared to them, it sounded dry.
Playing any electric instrument without reverb is something I'm just getting used to. I have an old Valco "Champ" style amp that sounds great with a lap steel. I guess if you want to get good, you shouldn't mask your playing with anything, but effects are tools for musical expression. Though they can easily be over used. I like playing my acoustic lap steel with chorus and delay, but then again, I'm not that good yet!

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 19 Jun 2005 1:53 am

Jeff, you are absolutely right. I always check amplifiers with no reverb. Actually, for most of my gigs, I use no reverb whatsover on the job.

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www.tyack.com

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 20 Jun 2005 7:56 am

hi Paul,
There was no reverb. I did an XLR DI from the AER to the board. Since it's the preamp out, no verb, and the board didn't have verb either. I wanted to mic the amps, but they ran out of channels so had to run the steel and acoustic both thru the AER for it to get on the radio mix. I sort of like to have a little when outdoors - but hopefully the sound was ok.

chris

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Chris Kennison
Colorado

[This message was edited by seldomfed on 20 June 2005 at 08:58 AM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Jun 2005 11:03 am

I'm more likely to use reverb if the amp is run in very clean mode, and tend not to like it as much when the amp is being overdriven. To me, reverb tends to muddy up the overdriven sound. So, I tend to use reverb more with clean pedal steel and guitar (especially surf guitar), but more often don't with lap steel (e.g., Ricky Bakelite into a small steel amp).

I argue that reverb adds to the apparent length of a note, since the decaying delayed-note train is schmeared by the ear into a single longer note. This has the effect of increasing apparent sustain. It's probably why I like it with real clean amps, and why I don't with overdriven amps - overdriving produces its own compression/sustain effect.

I normally try new amps out with as many permutations on the knobs as I can, to see what the possibilities are. So I certainly try any amp with variable amounts of reverb, including none.

Yes, I think reverb is a component of tone, but only one of many which can be mixed and matched at will. I agree that reverb can mask some of these other components. Overused, it can remove much subtlety in playing, but that's true of a lot of things, like compression, overdrive of tubes, and vibrato for that matter.

Clearly, the acoustic environment matters also. A great sounding room reverb is the best there is, to me. It's easy to go on autopilot on gigs, but I think it's good to use ones ears to make decisions like this. If it sounds good, it is good.

George Rout · Post by **George Rout** » 20 Jun 2005 6:52 pm

This "George" has to disagree with George Redmond on why anybody would think (artifically) that reverb has something to do with sustain. While you can have any measurement of sustain with zero reverb, what the ear hears with reverb (echo in the old days) is definitely a "sustained" sound. Sustain is not reverb, but reverb is definitely sustain!!!

Sometimes, I think we all forget about the basics, and that is, what is our pesonal touch. To me, I can (and do) comfortably use a mechanical spring reverb with as much pleasure or more than a digital one. I'm not saying "how much" reverb, just saying the use of it. Personally, I like just a touch of reverb, always have, always will for what I play. The only exception is Western Swing, I like to play THAT without any reverb. Put that in your reverb and sustain it!!!!!!!!!! George R.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 20 Jun 2005 8:13 pm

The band leader of the band that I play with will not go for any type of reverb unless he calls for it and it adds something to the piece we are playing. When the guys play Billy Vaghn's rendition of Blue Hawaii he wants the reverb on “my” amp set at 2 1/2 and no more.

On other occasions, he wants my amp’s reverb set at about 3 ½ - 4 1/2 when he calls for harmonics from the steel for certain tunes. At other times, when he wants harmonics, he doesn’t want any reverb what-so-ever.. He knows what fits and what doesn’t fit so, the reverb knob on my amp gets a good workout during a night’s work.

Never say never.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 20 Jun 2005 9:46 pm

When I check out amps I try it both with and without reverb. Some amps have a really nice sounding reverb that I'd be happy to use, others don't. It's definitely a part of the sound an amp makes--if you play with it. I probably practice with and without reverb in equal parts, depending on the sound I want, or whether I'm practicing something that reverb would interfere with.

-Travis