Buddy Cage's style

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 19 Apr 2007 12:20 pm

Jeff Lampert wrote:Haven't heard Truck Drivin' Man, so I can't comment.

I think he's talking about this one that Jim Peters posted:

http://www.newridersofthepurplesage.com/new_riders.wmv

IMHO, that IS an awful lot of playing by today's standards, but it totally goes with the tune. Truck Drivin' Man practically screams for that sort of playing.

That style of busy playing behind the vocal was pretty popular back in the day. Not that I'm any sort of expert...heck, back in THAT day, I don't think I was even alive yet. Okay, well, I'm not THAT young

. When was that recorded anyway?

New Riders is a group I haven't checked out, mainly because I associate them with the Dead, who I just can't stand.

After listening to that clip, maybe I should rethink my silly prejudice and give 'em a listen. That IS some terrific steel playing!

Tom Newman · Post by **Tom Newman** » 19 Apr 2007 1:35 pm

Hi folks, Buddy Cage was working in a local studio a couple of years ago here in RI. I was helping a young songwriter with his first CD and Buddy agreed to put some tracks on for us... He had been working for three days straight but still had plenty of bullets left when he put these tracks on.. here is a link where you can hear him - track 3 Set Em Up Boys...

http://cdbaby.com/cd/jjbaron

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Apr 2007 1:48 pm

After listening to that clip, maybe I should rethink my silly prejudice and give 'em a listen. That IS some terrific steel playing!

-I love the sound of that steel as well, so I ordered the Panama Red cd. I just couldnt get into it. I have the same trouble with Poco. i just dont dig the songs.

regarding the Dead (whom i also cannot get into at all), i think many of us who came up during the punk years thought of the Dead as representing everything we despised about popular music. They wre pretty much the polar oppposite of everything we were into at the time. Putting aside the social significance of the Dead and their fans, i tried many times to get into em and just listen to the albums, even went to two concerts to check out what the fuss was all about...no deal for me. Ive since come to respect Garcia as a musician mainly from his bluegrassy stuff but still cannot listen to the Dead. I know there alot of fans here on this forum, and Im not tryin to slam the Dead or Garcia. To each their own. Just wanted to offer some insight as to why they rub many people my age the wrong way.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 19 Apr 2007 1:59 pm

Ben, you are my evil twin...or am I your evil twin?

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 19 Apr 2007 3:37 pm

The Dead and NRPS represent rock and county rock infused with pot,there is no way around it. But Poco is not in that vein at all. Bad weather IMO is just a great song with a great steel solo. Panama Red is a great steel solo with a great song. Panama, Henry, Glendale Train, I view these as comic books put to music, with great imagery, Panama especially so.
My steel mentor, Don Curtis feels that you either play not at all, in between vocals, or all the time. Buddy was all the time, but if you listen to the vocals, he plays after the phrases, not over them. Truck Drivin Man, he is all over everything, I love it, but wouldn't want to hear it all night over the vocals. he got it perfect on Panama. JP

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 19 Apr 2007 4:11 pm

From where I sit,I think Cage plays just about the right amount of steel. To those who think he steps on the singing in NRPS - I say: What singing? I'd rather hear a good steel player steppin all over a lame singer than trying to be "tasteful" in what is basically a lovable but lame bar band. But I was always knocked out his playing and stole a number of his slithering,chromatic,unresolving runs - which I still use today if I need to impress a chick,get a free drink or shut down a lead guitar player who plays faux pedal steel licks.If you listen to all the country rock bands from the late 60s/early 70s,BC was the only E9 player in that scene who had any serious chops.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Apr 2007 5:14 pm

which I still use today if I need to impress a chick,get a free drink or shut down a lead guitar player who plays faux pedal steel licks

haha..thats gold Michael!

I had to pop Panama Red on as soon as i got home and am listening to it now. I'm diggin it a little more than i had previously. Patrick dont let me dissuade you from checking em out, the steel is well worth the time listening in and of itself, and there are some cool songs as well it seems. It doesnt sound anything like the Dead to me, no jamming. Maybe I just need to give it a couple more spins? I dig Buddys fuzz solos ALOT.

I gave Poco another spin earlier but it was still not doin it for me.

Bernie Gonyea · Post by **Bernie Gonyea** » 19 Apr 2007 5:29 pm

Wow, Did this player bring Country Rock to the " Fore-Front of the Music Business"? I've always been a dye-hard old classic country Steel Guitar Picker; Hank Williams, Sr.; Merle Haggard; Ernie Tubb; Johnny Cash; Charlie Pride and top of the list for that time era; Buck Owens. Then comes along " The New Riders Of The Purple Sage" doing Panama Red; My ears couldn't believe what they were hearing; This new kid on the block doing such a fantastic job on a Pedal Stee.
I talked our lead singer into learning some of their material; such as "Panana Red" & "Lyin' Eyes", which we both loved; They were our two most requested numbers for a long spell.
I was in my mid forties at the time; a young group of musicians were just getting a band started and they were lovers of The NROPS. They heard our band doing " Panama Red'. Had no Steel Player for their new group and approached me to join their band. Here I'm twice all their ages and was a little reluctant to join them. Our regular band was only doing spot jobs .And I was just getting into the Buddy Cage Thing; and when these youngsters heard me back them, I was in second heaven; right along with them. The most FUN I'd ever had playing music and loved as much as my old C/W. days. Made me feel like a kid again. I really felt like I'd accomplished a good thing, when other Steel Players would hear me working with these young lads; and approach me and give out many grand compliments of my playing abilities.. That made me proud to be called a Steel Guitarist.. Thanks for letting me share those memories wit5h you. Still an old country boy, at heart..Bernie

I apologize for taking the spot lite from Buddy; shows you how his playing affected many other Pedal steel Players, at that time..Thanks for the Post, men.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 19 Apr 2007 5:36 pm

The Dead and NRPS represent rock and county rock infused with pot,there is no way around it.

I've got no problem with the pot, it's the pot smokers that get to me.

Patrick dont let me dissuade you from checking em out, the steel is well worth the time listening in and of itself, and there are some cool songs as well it seems. It doesnt sound anything like the Dead to me, no jamming. Maybe I just need to give it a couple more spins? I dig Buddys fuzz solos ALOT.

I gave Poco another spin earlier but it was still not doin it for me.

Oh, I'm definitely going to check it out.

In the past, I've bought some pretty horrific stuff just to listen to great steel playing. In another thread, I actually publicly admitted to having bought a (gulp) Tim McGraw cd because of the steel. So, obviously there's no level of suckiness in the artist that would keep me from appreciating the steel.

Re: Poco, I know whatcha mean. Although, I've gotta admit I've got a Poco compilation ("The Forgotten Trail", or something like that) that in small doses is pretty tolerable. The older stuff is actually pretty good, and Rusty Young's playing is outtasight, obviously.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 20 Apr 2007 5:15 am

If you listen to all the country rock bands from the late 60s/early 70s,BC was the only E9 player in that scene who had any serious chops.

I'd have to respectfully disagree - Rusty Young certainly had the chops at that time (Sneaky wouldn't be in the group since he didn't play E9).

Ben Jones - I didn't really understand in your post why the Dead rub some olks from "your generation" the wrong way, just that punk fans didn't like them. It's interesting, because around here the punk fans didn't like bands with flashy musicianship and especially prog-rock and "hair metal" bands - but the Dead were considered pretty benign. Just curious, what was it that caused the dislike?

FWIW I much prefer the NRPS recordings with Garcia on steel to Cage. Cage has monster chops, but his note choices always drove me a bit nuts (his oft-repeated ascending chromatic line, forced through whatever chord changes were happening, always really bugged me) and his tone was SO trebly I just couldn't listen to them much, even though at times I thought he could be stunning. I still would have loved to see a Sneaky/Cage set, though.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 20 Apr 2007 6:21 am

his tone was SO trebly

You even felt that way on studio recordings? I certainly don't. I thought his tone was very sweet on the studio stuff and in fact, other players of that generation like Mooney and even early Lloyd Green playing actually were just as bright sounding IMO. All of it was great though, and I think that late 60's early 70's time period was the boom of not just a lot of players, but a lot of the hugely inventive playing that launched an awful lot of what is heard today.

his oft-repeated ascending chromatic line

I'm sure everyone knows the famous line you're talking about. There are many lines repeated often by many players, but that line is so distinctive that when it is repeated, it stands out more. I hear Cage play it several times, but with different phrasing in other songs.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 20 Apr 2007 7:35 am

Ben Jones - I didn't really understand in your post why the Dead rub some olks from "your generation" the wrong way, just that punk fans didn't like them. It's interesting, because around here the punk fans didn't like bands with flashy musicianship and especially prog-rock and "hair metal" bands - but the Dead were considered pretty benign. Just curious, what was it that caused the dislike?

Well, I did say people my age who came up during the punk years so what i meant was punk fans..I know plenty plenty of people my age who loved and still love the Dead so perhaps that was phrased in not such a clear way. I didnt want to insult any dead fans by getting very specific but at the risk of doing so now, what we didnt like was:
-as you mentioned... flashy musicianship, especially long noodling guitar solos and intricate prog-like song structures both of which the Dead took to excruciating new levels of tediousness and pomposity for us.
-hippies, punks hated hippies and the whole lovey dovey hippie ethos. "peace and love" was not our thing..we were more into "seek and destroy". The twirling chicks in little house on the prairie dresses, tye-dyes, etc etc. and the whole panhandling "I need a miracle" thing.
-overblown stage productions, elaborate light shows, thirty foot walking skeletons etc.
-the hypocracy of everyone dressing and acting exactly alike while at the same time loudly proclaimin themselves to be anti-conformists. we hated this, (even tho we did pretty much the exact same thing)
-the whole trustafarian thing (rich kids with trust funds following the dead from town to town)even Don Henly (whom we also hated) seemed to be irked by it...haha..."The other day I saw a Deadhead sticker on a cadillac, a voice inside my head said you can never look back"- from Boys of Summer by Don Henly
-the pure and brazen capitalism at the dead shows. People in the parking lot selling apples for $3 each, etc.

I could go on...its hard to capture the essence of how we felt at that time and in that social and political climate. Maybe it was different on the west coast, for the west coast punks? I dunno...I recall several anti-dead punk songs tho..including "Bring me the Head of Jerry garcia!"...I beleive the next line was..."he plays guitar like diarhea"...hehe.

sorry Deadheads, no offense meant. Punk rock is certainly wide open for even more scathing critique.
As i said Ive since tried to get into the Dead on several occasions. i just dont dig that meandering off-kilter guitar stuff and I certainly didnt dig the hour long drum solos nor their fans live.

edited to say I hope this doesnt take this too far off topic, I was asked and so I told, ....and i cant beleive I quoted Don Henly.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 20 Apr 2007 8:52 am

I remember when I found out that ALL the B3 stuff on the Poco alblums I was listening to was done by Rusty Young on Pedal Steel.
Cool!

The NRPS, Poco, and PPL live alblums were where I came into steel.
Lots of fast soloing with great tone!

We need to get a Country Rock Steel Convention going!

Great Stuff!
Pete B.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 20 Apr 2007 9:21 am

I've been a NRPS fan since the first album, and that had Jerry on Steel. Buddy really kicked it up several notches when he joined.

I'm VERY disappointed that tonight NRPS, with Buddy, is playing in a club that's only two miles from my home, and I'm playing a gig an hour away!

How I'd love to be at their gig.

This being responsible and dependable thing has it's drawbacks.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 20 Apr 2007 9:31 am

Joey, Oh Man, You need to school your band on the concept of "Black Out Dates" and "Subs" (Who aren't necessarily required to be steel players)!
I put a different spin on it, and with Buddy's help, managed to book my group as the opening band last time the NRPS were in town.
I set up my steel right next to Buddy's!
Cool!
Pete B.

Bob Knetzger · Post by **Bob Knetzger** » 20 Apr 2007 10:24 am

Seems to me a lot of these kinds of threads end up being a polarized discussion about how much one camp loves a certain player/style/sound from the past and the other camp doesn't "get it" try as they might. From topics on Garcia, Randolph, or this one on Cage, to other topics like "so few young players can get into learning steel by listening to Ray Price 4/4 shuffles," aging demographics at steel shows, etc., a lot of people get their musical tastes set at young age and that’s it.

There may be a neurological reason for this, the concept of a person's “window for musical adventure" closing at a certain age. Check this out:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5652676

(I know I can tend toward this. I got into steel due to listening to bands like Poco, FBBros, Ian&Sylvia Great Speckled Bird w/Cage, etc. back in the 70s. It all had great pedal steel prominently featured with lots of hot, snappy, aggressive and BUSY playing. Very “West Coast” sounding and in a band setting. You could see this stuff LIVE! Only much later did I learn to appreciate the more subtle nuances of Nashville studio stuff. Now when I listen to old Poco tracks, I still love the steel playing but a lot of the material doesn’t hold up for me. That was then…..)

I wonder if pedal steel players, given the extra physicality of playing the instrument, have an added neurological aspect to their musical expression and interests.

Think about how much muscle memory can go into playing just one note on a pedal steel: right hand picking and muting, bar control, foot pedal and knee lever activation and volume pedal-- together with the on-the-fly musical theory/note layout across 10 (or 20 if you’re switching necks mid-song) strings with split pulls and tunings with pedal/lever combinations…and when you’re “on,” it all happens so smoothly. You’re thinking about it but you’re not “thinking about it.” The years and years of practice and playing have actually changed the wiring of the neurons of your brain (that’s what any kind of learning is).

Now think about how you were also “burning in” your musical taste at the same time you were “burning in” your steel playing technique. Some guys were “Crazy Arm-ing,” in the 60s, others were “Bad Weather-ing” in the 70s, or “Highway 40 Blues-ng” in the 80’s, and right now I hope some kid has got his mp3 player on loop playback as he (or she?) is figuring out some crazy Robert Randolph lick.

Back to topic….anybody out there ever really accurately tabbed out some Buddy Cage stuff? “Trucker’s Café” would be a great one. Are ALL those whole step bends done with the A pedal on the 5th string? .. or is it more nuanced than that? Or has anyone dissected his trademark chromatic string stuff? –why does it sound so great it some places and not so much in others?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 20 Apr 2007 10:46 am

Bob, here is one from rebel rickys site:
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel ... rylou.html

...so William (the original poster), looks like your gonna be using string 2 ALOT!

the concept of a person's “window for musical adventure" closing at a certain age.

-I dont think thats it, at least not in my case. I just discovered country and country rock about a year ago at the age of 39 and fell hard for it. For me its not the player I dont "get". Its the music. I love RR's playing but just am not moved in the least by the tunes. ditto Rusty Young and Poco, whereas the FBB's I could listen to forever and are one of my faves. I just dig their songs, they move me, they speak to me.

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 20 Apr 2007 11:55 am

The thing about NRPS is that there was a "reversal of fortunes" between their first and second albums:

The songwriting on the first album was their best. If I want to hear NRPS, it's the album I put on. Not because of the steel, but because of the music in general. Jerry G's steel didn't set the world on fire here. It was stylistically appropriate and he did some interesting things (like the overdrive/fuzz on the song Dirty Business). I've got no problem with Garcia as a steeler at all. But you can't compare Garcia and Cage because... well, Jerry only played steel for a couple of years and acknowledged that he wasn't a serious player. He was no steel chops-monster like Cage.

So Cage comes along as the steeler on the second album (Panama Red) and the technical aspect goes WAY up, but the songwriting just wasn't up to snuff. Cage was good, but the rest of the band phoned it in. There are maybe two songs on that second album that I want to hear. And the rest aren't just bland... they're actively lame, IMHO.

Flame suit on. GO!

Frederic Mabrut · Post by **Frederic Mabrut** » 20 Apr 2007 1:39 pm

[ quote]
You’re thinking about it but you’re not “thinking about it.”

I agree with you Bob. It's exactly the same phenomenon you can experiment when you have been practising martial arts a lot of years (25+ years in my case). Things go so smoothly and naturally you don't even think about it. It just happen.
I just wish I could the same thing about pedal steel!

BTW its true: except for mary lou, one cannot find a tab of Buddy' playing. Too difficult to master?

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 20 Apr 2007 3:24 pm

Tucker Jackson wrote:
So Cage comes along as the steeler on the second album (Panama Red) and the technical aspect goes WAY up, but the songwriting just wasn't up to snuff. Cage was good, but the rest of the band phoned it in. There are maybe two songs on that second album that I want to hear. And the rest aren't just bland... they're actively lame, IMHO.

Flame suit on. GO!

I think it was cuz they were "Smokin' Dope, Snortin' Coke, Tryin' to write a song"

I picked up Panama Red today, and it's not so bad. I dig the steel playing a whole lot. Rest of the band and songwise, there's still a lot of the "hippie" vibe that rubs my punk the wrong way, but it's way better than I was expecting. Way less "Deady" than I thought. In fact, not once did I think about tightening my headband for an extra rush during anyone's guitar solo.

I broke out the Poco cd today too, and I think the thing that bums me out the most about the "country rock" thing of that era is the CS&N style backing vocals. Icky. Now that I think about it, I'll go so far as to say Icky Pooh. Even the Burritos (who are far and away my favs from this genre) backing vocal thing harshes my buzz, so to speak. One might say it yellows my mellow, or "bohgs" my high, as it were.

Oh, and Ben I can't believe you quoted Don Henley either! Brutal!

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 20 Apr 2007 3:38 pm

Wasn't "Powerglide" the second album?

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 20 Apr 2007 3:48 pm

Right you are, Bob. My mistake: Powerglide was the second album, not Panama Red.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 20 Apr 2007 4:45 pm

hmmm. Really interesting

I consider myself at the very most, an average steel player. Barely.. I too have long loved Buddy Cage's playing. He is in my top 4 along with Brumley, Rusty and Sneaky.
However, I must say, the way my friends here are all aglow over Buddy's playing is confusing,, I find his style accurate, very bright and cheerful sounding, makes you smile, but to me, its almost rudimentary in its simplicity... I adore his playing, but its stuff most decent steel players should know after a year or so.

Maybe I just studied it too hard, and I got jaded, but its really just basic palm blocking at a fair clip..certainly nothing very hard to understand for most fair players.
.
Again, I am fairly limited in skill, and I am NOT an egotist, and I lament my lack of progress beyond the 70's country rock style I am STILL stuck in, so don't take these comments the wrong way!!!

I can cop very few of todays steel players licks, but I can nail just about every solo , fill ,and lick of Buddys that I have ever heard with very little effort, and was able to do so after just a few months, as were most steel players I was friends with back in the 70's.. we ALL did it, it was no problem at all for most players.

Maybe the fact that steel playing techniniques have improved and advanced so much in the past 30 years is a factor in this,...Today I see Buddy's style as a stepping stone for new players to more advanced styles....

He IS one of my all time faves, I love his execution,style and sound, but I feel he is pretty fairly outgunned by most decent players these days..

Hey I could be wrong,,,who knows..

i could never cop anything by Emmons, Chalker,Jernigan,Rugg Myrick etc etc, and LOTS of other guys could, so I guess some good players over the years had trouble with something that came easy to us old country rockers.. I really find this thread very intriguing,... I am glad so many guys still like Buddy's playing and the New Riders in general after all these years!!

... bob

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 20 Apr 2007 6:08 pm

"but I feel he is pretty fairly outgunned by most decent players these days.."

So your assuming that his playing "today" is the same as it was 20yrs ago when those records were made?

JE:-)>

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 21 Apr 2007 12:20 am

So your assuming that his playing "today" is the same as it was 20yrs ago when those records were made?

Well, if the stuff that's shown up on Youtube lately is representative - yes.

And to answer an earlier question, I DID think his studio tone was also way heavy on the top end.

I'm kind of with Bob Carlucci - I never really heard anything that knocked me out - good playing skill to be sure, but nothing that floored me, and sometimes really odd note choices, and not in a way I found pleasing; not like when a creative player plays "outside" stuff and you smile...more like you want to nudge things back into the chord progression.

But I STILL liked listening to some of his playing, and at the time the only steel players I knew of were Cage, Kleinow, Young, Perkins, Garcia, Howe...and the guys on the "Sweetheart" album, whose names I didn't remember at the time since that was the only thing I ever saw their names on.