The Steel Guitar Forum

Randy's guitar, which is a '65 model #2009, is a great sounding axe, but it's only one of several excellent Emmonses here in this Austin/San Antonio area. My personal favorite, one I used to own, is Jim Loessberg's '65 #5065023. Also my personal guitar, a '64 #1264018, is very close to Jim's both in number and in sound... almost identical, in fact. Bobby Flores owns '65 #2187, which is a darker sounding guitar than either Jim's or mine. Marty Muse has a wonderful guitar a few numbers earlier than Bobby's. All of these guitars are black wraparounds, incidentally; some with red undercarriages, some with black flocking.

Rick Price also has a '66 bolt-on which is a fantastic guitar as well, though I don't have the number handy at the moment. Dickey Overby also has a wonderful sounding bolt-on, a rosewood '67.

I like my newer P/P more (tone and quality) than an older black P/P I had.

we have a couple of people saying that in p/p comparisons the S10s sound better

Yes, I was very surprised! As I said earlier, I had 5 push/pulls in a room, and I patched each one of them (one at a time) directly into a Vegas 400, using no volume pedal, and played each one for a few minutes. Some were darker in tone, some were brighter, but the one with the most b@lls and the best tone IMHO was a S-10. I was floored by that! At first I thought it was the pickup, but the guitars sounded different even when played without an amp. I came to the conclusion that the difference is in the wood, and in the metal parts and how those parts make contact with the body and with each other. The differences in the guitars can best be heard in side-by-side comparisons.

I have a LeGrande III and it sure does not have the Emmons tone the push pull guitars have. It is a nice guitar but the sound just is not there compared to the push pull I had several years ago.

True. The LeGrande is a nice guitar, but it sounds like all the other pedal steel guitars. I am not putting them down, I'm just saying that the Emmons push/pull tone is unique. There's nothing like it.

Just by looking at there website, Emmons no longer offers a PP, I understand there is advantage's to an all-pull, but it seems that there is a market of guys who would want to buy a PP, Promat seem's to capitalize on this.

Best sounding PP ive ever seen...happens to be mine....Stamped in the end plate next to the serial number it says CUST BLT FOR BG EMMONS, 75 D12

IMHO the best sounding Emmons is whichever one Buddy is playing at the time.

BUT the Blade sure does sound great! (I doubt it would sound as good with me playing it, though... )

I have about all different model P-Ps in my personal collection, Wrap around, Bolt on, Split, Wood necks, flat backs, from '64 to '88. All have "That Sound" but do sound different up to a point. One of the best I have ever heard I just sold, it was a wood guitar, with wood necks, about a '70. It came out of KS. Belonged to a friend named Ray Clark,,,Astounding sounding.

As far as the neck configuration goes, every P-P guitar sounds slightly different, however, all are incredible, no winners here but there are differences that boil down to opinions.

My opinion? The greatest sounding guitars in the world by far. Any of them. (P-Ps).
I have had a couple of favorite P-Ps over the years, but there are NO bad sounding Emmons or Promat "P-P" steel guitars.


NOW,,,,,, P-P guitars are not for everybody. How many times have I heard someone say, "well, my guitar's tone is good enough for me". "My tone is acceptable" or "What difference does a little tone make anyway?", I say friends, these guys don't need a P-P guitar, if they can be happy with something else, they should have something else.

I personally have trouble when I'm playing in a tough situation without a P-P guitar, like an outside show, in bad humidity, or studios with bad earphone amps etc. ,,,, This is when the P-P guitars pull me through. You know, when the last ounce of tone is needed !!!
If one never needs that last ounce of tone, then get something else, if something else is "good enough for you" then that is what you need.
I'm just not good enough to make poor quality sound work for me yet. I still have to pushum' and pullum".


I have people call me or email me everyday asking "how can I get that great sound I hear on records?" "I have every effect that everone else has," "How do you guys get that sound?" Names mentiond are Weldon Myrick, Hal Rugg, Robbie Turner, Sonny Garrish, Mike Johnson, Older Buddy Emmons Price recordings,(and even me). Well, you need to start with a good guitar, then all the other things come into play. But you really need "That" guitar to get started.

Back to the question in this topic? OK, which P-P is the best? I have them all and still can't say, but I will say, ALL are great when all else lets you down.

There has been much written by folks that don't know anything about these guitars lately that claim they are "hard to tune" "Hard to keep in tune" and a lot of "trouble to maintain". None of these things could be farther from the truth. I have been playing the same one (mostly) for nearly forty years, after the original "shake down period" that about all guitars have to go through, it has required NO service except strings and some lube (every couple years). Yes to "involved to install additional knee levers" by the owner at times. Not easy.

Why do you think most manufacturers use this guitars tone as a measurment or standard for what a steel guitar shoud sound like? "Our guitars have that Emmons sound" or "We build em to sound as close to an Emmons as we can". Yep, a good selling point.

No, I'm not an Emmons dealer, I sell several other brands that I also believe sound FINE, but, the old P-P Emmons is a total killer in the tone department. If you are a rare individual that can get by with something else, then do it, it leaves more P-Ps for me to collect! (Laughs here)

In closing I must also say, YES, I have recently heard a few great sounding newer steel guitars, All pulls, I'm happy to say this also. It shows that the newer builders are caring about what is the most important thing about a steel guitar, TONE, however, I realize that this is not everyone's priority. And that's fine.

Bobbe

Bobbe and everybody,

Any guesstimates about how many steelers regard the Emmons P-P as their favorite tone? I see a lot of guys playing a lot of different brands, and I gotta think that many of them think their rig has their favorite tone and wouldn't switch even if they could afford it.

I really like my 73 Emmons P/P D10, bought new in 73,changed to Lawrence pickups, played using Peavy 1000 and Peavy 112. This steel still looks new and plays as good today as it did in 73. I route through a Goodrich Dobro box to my Amps. The sound/tone is super

It's a shame that Green, Drake, Brumley, Anderson, Chalker, Dugmore, Day... didn't play 'em. If they had, they might have made a name for themselves as steel guitarists.

After reading Bobbe's post, I thought I was reading a post of my own !!....I've owned a few P/P's , both D-10's and S-10's , and they all had "THAT TONE" ...
All were different , but similar ....They all had that wonderful P/P tone, but some were a little brighter , some a little darker , some played hard, and some played easy ... The basic P/P tone was still there in all of them, and you could FEEL the tone as well as HEAR the tone...All had that feel and sound to them even unplugged ... Whether it's a brighter sounding P/P or a darker sounding P/P , they ALL sound GREAT !!.... The P/P is one steel that sounds like no other, and it will be a steel that many others are compared to ... If I could get my copedant to work on a P/P, and could find enough parts to get my SD-12 together to make a U-12 out of it, I would be happy a pig in pooh pooh to play it as my main ax !!...I don't think that I've ever owned a pedal steel that held a tuning under many different conditions as ANY of my P/P's did ...Jim

Yep, Lashley is making a limited # of the S 10 PP Emmons, Here is an email response from Rebecca Lashley

Hey Herbie, Sorry we did not get back with you sooner... We were trying to research the serial number for you....This PSG was built 12-16-1971 was sold to Dean Markley Music, originally had 6 pedals and no knees... Well the rest of the information you already have : ) Hope this helps... Keep in touch, oh by the way the Limited Re-issued Push Pulls we are making sell for $3481.43 This is for the S-10 Push Pull A-3-4 with case....

Kind regards and Happy New Year,
Rebecca Lashley
Emmons Guitar Co. by Lashley, Inc.

>
> From: "Herbie"
> Date: 2006/12/25 Mon PM 12:39:30 EST
> To: <r_lashley>
> Subject: S 10 PP Year madel
>
> I have an Emmons, S- 10 PP Black , six pedals, 2 knee levers. adjustable legs
> Serial number , 1200 S , is all I can see underneath
> I've played it for over 30 years , one to six nights a week, Retired now.
> only problem I ever had, The Pick up, lost it's springs and flops around
> so I carried a little phillips screw driver to adjust the pick up.
>
> I would like to know what year model it is
>
> Dean Markley, from Santa Clara, CA, ordered it, early 1970's for me, Buddy poulled it off the line, as they were months behind filling orders.
> and shipped it, Air Freight, over night, as I was on tour, and needed it, Like "Yesterday"
>
> Thanks in advance for the info
> Herbie Meeks
>

Bump
for those looking for an Emmons S 10 PP

Herb

Lem, These guys you mentioned are incredible players, they made it in spite of their tone! Ha! Ha!

Yep, call the Emmons factory in you guys want a re-issue P-P, Call me if you want an original Emmons P-P, and Call Damir if you want another great choice, "The Promat".

Bobbe

I don't know which is the best sounding, But I have a Le Grande II sd10 on order.

Larry Petree once told me that Jay Dee would strum the strings without an amp and know whether "that sound" was in there or not and it makes sense to me.

Best sounding Emmons? Buddy!

Here is one of my re-issue D-10 push/pulls.

Erv, that kinda looks like my "all-pull".

Not when you look under the "hood".

Bobbe,
A while ago (maybe years), I seem to recall you mentioned in this forum that you were considering creating instructions and /or making a video for sale on how to tweak / make mechanical adjustments to an Emmons P/P to get the best possible tone. Do you still have any intentions of doing that? If so any time frame ?

This one sounds good<br>
Picture file

so does this one<br>
Picture file

both are laquers.....my 66 bolt-on aint too bad either

My '75 black D-10 8X5 was a great sounding guitar. I sold it to a guy in Fresno, and he seems to have disappeared.

Rand, that red one is one of the prettiest Emmons I've ever seen. Is the other one brown? You make it look so easy, even a cave man could do it.

...Excuse Me??!!...