The Steel Guitar Forum

I have never totally understood the concept as to why refinishing or touching up ruins values of guitars, while at the same time a vintage muscle car will be worth mega bucks with fresh paint. you never see old cars or vintage bikes, motorcylces , antique furniture, or anything except musical instruments that has a loss of value by making it look new again. now I know that some would say that it might effect the tone somewhat, but would it really if it was done correctly? how does putting new tolex on a worn out amplifier change the tone of it any more than putting in fresh tubes might? yet by making the amp look new again you decrease the value. why? If my GTO was repainted at Joe's bodyshop, does that mean it is no longer a real one because GM did not paint it?. some people also pay big bucks for worn out jeans with holes already in them. personally I wouldn't wouldn't wear them in public. I won't drive a vintage car with crappy original paint with the rust showing through and I won't play beat up crappy looking musical equipment. I think that beat up look is for certain people but it is just not my style. I just threw this out as food for thought. different strokes for different folks

Guns devalue if you re-blue them. An historic painting devalues if someone touches it up. In short I have zero clue except maybe this way nothing is hidden. Or it supposedly diminishes the mojo?

It seems to me that most times when someone come on here, especially someone that isn't a regular, and sez he has this lap steel, The first thing outa his mouth is "how much is it worth?"

I think we are letting ourselves be prisoners of the value of instruments.
It almost sounds like we are collectors instead of players.
If the guitars I buy are gonna keep me thinking about their value, I dont want the dam things. I'll just build something I like and be done with it.
Besides, if an old String Master or any other guitar is all beat to hell, I wont play it in public. That may be just me (?)

The one I'm refinishing wasn't up to what I would play in public.
That's not to say I wont try to make it look like it was originally.

Sorry about the rant

This is what I like about this forum!!! Food for thought.
I also like to have my guitars look good when playing in public. I wonder if some of the original owners of these guitars ever touched them up if they got a big nick? On an acoustic guitar I can understand not refinishing it because of the tone issue but on a solid body guitar tone would not be changed that I could see.

One other thing about the paint... back in the day..they used to use a pigment that had chromium (sp) in it to get the chrome yellow and orange real bright. a few years ago (10 or 20) they decided not to use it because of health issues. Same as with the lead paints today. If the original paint used by Fender was made with these pigments we would not be able to get an exact match and they would age differently. More food for thought.

You are certainly correct about paint Don. I had enamel in my house when I built it. and when re-painting ceilings and walls, Nobody had enamel, just latex, which is OK. I think even new cars are painted with some sort of water base paint.

I believe you are also correct about acoustic instruments. I'm sure tone would be affected by fooling around with the finish.

My favorite refinish story: A guy came into our music store a few years ago with a National Tricone that had belonged to his grandfather, and the metal body was dull with wear. He felt very lucky because his buddy worked for a plating company, and he could have the instrument chrome plated for ½ price… what a deal! Naturally I advised him not to do it, and I told him that his National had great value, and re-plating it would cut the value in half. He said he didn’t care about the value. He wanted to restore this family heirloom to it’s “original beauty”. So he had the work done, and basically ruined the instrument. I wonder how his grandchildren will feel about this in future years?

Yeah, I hear what you are saying doug. If I owned a steel that had a high value, I would likely sell it and get something that I felt comfortable with taking it out of the house.
The only thing I have that may be worth a few bucks is an early Rick frypan, and the only time I usually take it out is to Hawaii, and that's because it's lighter to lug around than the bakelite.

I have an Excel D8,now that thing is really heavy. That guitar is here on borrowed time. Someone at a convention will get a super deal on it.

UPDATE:: I have the Dual -Pro stripped and sanded. Turns out it's a really nice piece of wood. Had to fill some small holes with plastic wood, which will accept a stain/tint of the blonde color.
Mostly all the plates need re-chrome. The guy at the chrome shop knows me by my first name. That's good, but expensive. He re-chromed a lot of parts for my '74 Chevelle Malibu restoration.
The tuners are going to get a major restoration of some sort, using the original lollipop buttons.

To retouch or refinish or not is a very puzzling question. Obviously in the vintage guitar and amp market, it is the kiss of death. It may not make any sense, but that's the way it is. Although some people still actually play them, these things are passing from the realm of musical instruments into the collector's world of antiques and art. Just as obviously, in the antique car world, restoration is the name of the game. Pedal steels are now being treated more as pieces of machinary, like the cars. Bobbe Seymour is refinishing old Bigsbys that he claims are approaching the $100,000 level in value. Many people are refinishing old Sho-Bud's and other vintage lacquer pedal steels. They will even completely replace the changer and undercarriage with modern mechanics, just like moding a street rod. At the moment, this is definitely adding to their resale value. But vintage lap steels seem to be more in the vintage guitar camp - refinishing cuts their value. If you are really interested more in making it look nice and playing it in public, then retouching and refinishing may be worth it to you. But you will loose money in the long run. You may be able to sell it to another musician who wants to play it and even make a small profit. But you will forfeit a substantial amount of the bigger investment value of holding it and selling it to a collector. That's just the way the market is, and I don't think we can change it.

P.S.: As a musician rather than a collector, I take advantage of this. I got a great deal on a '50s D8 Stringmaster because someone had modded it from four legs to three. I also got a great deal on a Fender Princeton amp, because someone had drilled a hole in the faceplate for an effects jack that had since been removed. I love those mods that don't effect the playing but that kill the collectors' interest.

Yes David, I understand what you are saying. Lap steels are a lot easier for a collector to display too. I can't picture pedal steels hanging on a wall at this point, but who knows, maybe 15 years from now it may happen.

Like I mentioned earlier, the monetary value isn't my primary concern, but it's nice to have things look original and un-butchered.

BILL

This is a good thread. It brings out facts and opinions like the forum is supposed to.