The Steel Guitar Forum

Can I drill a hole in the top of mine, for my finger to fit into better ?

Steinar-- you might be on to something there.

Could it be you just invented the SteelGuitarCapo™®?

Flat Bar v. Revers slant !!

Maybe Rick can answer this ! When I
got my first Steel , I got a Flat bar - There
may have been Round ones But I didn't
know about them - with the tunings ! " E7th
" or just " E" it seem that the only slant necessary
was a forward ! I haven't tried E or E7th in a lot
of years !

were there Reverse Slants !
with that tuning . ????
All I can say about Reverse now is ! its just part
of playing ! you don't even think about it - I believe
you can say the same about a pedal Player - if you
have to think about the pedals your already to late

Bottom Line !!! your hands have to be part of
the machine ! as a pedal player has to be a
extension of the machine !
Practice Practice Practice --
the only way to get it that I know of .
Bob

I've seen tab from the 30's that used reverse slantin' ... in E maj.

Any E tuning with the top three strings bein' ... 3 5 1 ... will give you a "Main-stay" reverse slant ... V7 to I

Here is an example in E maj (lo to hi) ... E B E G# B E

A G7 to C resolve ...


<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>

--- 7 --- 8 ---
--- 8 --- 8 ---
--- 9 --- 8 ---
---------------
---------------
---------------
</pre></font>

This very "maneuver" is the basis of JB's reverse slant "Tour De Force" ... Surprise Waltz ... in his E9 (D E F# G# B E).


------------------

<font size=1> Aiello's House of Gauss</font>

<font size=1>
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield</font>

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 March 2005 at 11:02 AM.]</p></FONT>

Combine this ... with the "split slant" available using the top three strings (to get minor chords) ...

Ex: Dm to G7 to C

<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>

--- 10 --- 7 --- 8 ---
--- 10 --- 8 --- 8 ---
--- 9 --- 9 --- 8 ---

</pre></font>

And ya got a classic ii-V7-I cadence ...

And some serious "bar maneuverin' practice" ...

<font size=2>Sorry ... just goofin' around.</font>

Hey Rick,

I love the pictures and the tab for the different slants. Do you have any other slant tabs?

Keith

Not in standard "tab" form ... but written out usin' the "number system" ...

Slantin' in C6/A7 & Other Tunin's

There's an "explaination" for my notation ... as you scroll down.

It's just a "Key Based" view of the fretboard ... using numbers to represent the notes in a chord.

This can be used to "chart out" any tunin' ... once you get the idea behind it.

All those files on that page ... are just stuff I did for myself ... many years ago ... to figure out what was "behind" the tab I was usin'/learnin' from.



------------------

<font size=1> Aiello's House of Gauss</font>

<font size=1>
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield</font>

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 March 2005 at 01:21 PM.]</p></FONT>

I've also found this site to be useful when figuring out triads and how to slant them. Like Rick's impressive document, it use the number system so it's easy to pick the harmonies you want.

Steinar

------------------
www.gregertsen.com

Rick, thanks for that little bit of tab. I tried it out on my bottlenecker, and was able to do it. Slants on slide require a lot of elbow movement, course that's because your finger is in the slide.
Steinar, that's a great site. More slants for bottleneck!
JB

Yep ... that Chord House site sure woulda been nice to have ...

Here's a standard "Slant-A-Rama" in C6 tunin' ...

ii - V7 - I ...

<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>

E --- 10 --- 9 --- 8 --- 7 --- 8
C --- 9 --- 9 -----------------
A --- 8 --- 8 --- 8 --- 8 --- 7
G ------------------------------
E ------------------------------
C ------------------------------
Dm F+ F G7 C
</pre></font>

Good warm up ...



------------------

<font size=1> Aiello's House of Gauss</font>

<font size=1>
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield</font><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 17 March 2005 at 02:40 PM.]</p></FONT>

Joel,

The index finger really "should" be crooked to form the fulcrum around which the bar tip will rotate as previously well said by others in this discussion. Keeping that fulcrum in one place is a jewel of technique. Your thumbnail will fit right into the recess on the heel of the bar, and in moving the bar forward will rotate onto the meat of your thumb where the amount of bar slant can be felt and programmed into the brain by muscle-motor and eyeball-paralax and ear memories. Control is the key because rather than "spitting" the bar out to receive the thumb, the thumb motion should have full control of slants at all times ...for fluidity of inflections on either end or along the bar which that full control affords. And doing it that way does indeed offer a superior fluid control of the bar, ...not to say that other methods don't too; I "simply" trust Jerry Byrd's word that he has tried everything he could to perfect his techniques which I fully believe, respect and strive for.

Besides the arched index finger being "correct" ...and noticeable in the pictures of many (but not all) pedal and non-pedal Steelers who do it that way; Jerry Byrd's left hand finger tip joint is actually deformed with a noticeable slant leftward toward the bar which makes controlling the bar fulcrum easier with the crooked finger and additional sharp verticle finger-tip angle he uses. It appears to me to be a natural deformation "broken in" perfectly by the repetitive pressures of playing that "correct" way.

Now, the natural crook of my left finger turns away from the bar slightly, ...which causes down-pressure with that finger to push the finger off of the bar, requiring sideward pressure against the fingertip to keep it on the bar ...quite mechanically difficult and painful over an extended period of playing time. No matter how hard and much I try (which has been and remains ALLOT), my index finger refuses to be able to remain in place in the proper crooked position at the bar-tip fulcrum and still maintain control of the bar while playing in real time. So even though I practice it "properly" in slower time and have hopes that might fix the problem; in real time I too often find my index finger displaced much like your picture of the bar extended into reverse slant. I've also noticed that to be the case in pictures of other Steelers as well ...Jr Brown a case in point, (since I try to analyze every aspect of that musical nut-case (a compliment of the highest degree) whose index and ring fingers hold the bar in a "V" manner in every picture I've seen of his left hand playing. But I have also analyzed and found that the fulcrum will indeed move as the index finger moves away from the proper spot ...with noticeable loss of slanting intonation control on that end of the bar.

------------

The best way I've found to practice and teach the coordination and programming of muscle-motor, eye paralax and the ear for reverse slants, is by playing / practicing major scales harmony up and down the neck, ...(in a 6th tuning) starting with the 1 note on the 1st string and 3 note on the 4th string; and also with the 1 note on the 3rd string and 3rd note on the 6th string. Next explore changing the scale to minor7 ...and then other minors. I prefer sticking with the church mode minors because they lead to understanding modal navigation and keep the church mode interval series intact to engrain a sense and armature of good harmony that can be departed from as need be. Another good practice technique is to play the 1 note on the 2nd string together with the 3 note on the 5th string, and then moving into a reverse slant slide the 3 note up to the 4 note and back to the 3 note like a pedal steel movement ...making sure to keep the 1 note in intonation and the 3 - 4 - 3 note movements arrive and in intonation. It is very important to watch the left hand working while practicing, to notice and correct any hand technique errors in real time.

Here is a simple exercise of the Major 7 scale with harmony in a mode-box, that uses forward and reverse slants at the bottom and top of the box.

And here is another simple exercise of a passage putting that scale / position to work ...which can have the box's fuller scale harmonies worked into it to use the slants at the bottom and top of the box's scale. Utilizing the reverse slant exercises first said in this posting, ...along with forward slant scale on the 2nd and 5th strings, ...they can move right out of this exercise box into a different chord-change / mode box.

Aloha,
DT~
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 March 2005 at 04:50 AM.]</p></FONT>

Wow Denny!!! Thanks so much for that "war and peace" of a reply . . .I'm going to practice your examples right now. . . . Though I must say I'm having a difficult time with the arching and pivotal point 1st finger thing,(I'm getting very good at shooting that bar across the room tho, . . .argh!)

This is a great example of a picture being worth a thousand words. In regard to Denny's comments on Jerry Byrd's index finger joint, I have had to have surgery on both of my hands to be able to straighten the fingers. So I am particularly aware after the surgery and months of physical therapy that not all hands work the same. But at least I have a picture to aspire to.

OOPS ....I edited my last message to add that the major scale practice strings / notes mentioned was referring to a 6th tuning.

Also, Jerry's places his index fingertip slightly to the right of the center of the bar tip ...again natural for his bent finger tip digit; Although he teaches to place it at the center near the tip. But I also find just slightly right of center to be best for my finger as well, because it secures the bar against the ring finger better while still controlling the fulcrum point.

I might also mention that when practicing reverse slants, ...the bar will zero in on any exposed toes when it makes it's all-too-often departure from the neck ! .

Aloha,
DT~
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 March 2005 at 05:02 AM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>slightly to the right of the center of the bar tip</SMALL>

Mine always found its way there , too ...

Hmmmm, ok I can see how being a little right of center makes the reverse slant much easier. I still am having a hard time bending that 1st finger,(I guess the pedal guys I've watched pretty much operate with a straightenend 1st finger).
On another note, 'slant' versus 'bar size', as was mentioned previously, . . .for certain chords that Rick tabbed and these(these are forward ones, I'll get to the reverses soon);
G7
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
E-----------------------------------
C----------------------5-------
A----------------------5-------
G------------------4-------------
E--------------3------------------
C-------------------------------------
</pre></font>
and this;
C6th
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
E-----------------------5-----------
C-------------------4--------------
A---------------3-----------------
G--------------------------------
E---------------------------------
C-------------------------------------
</pre></font>
If you play these voicings down the board you need a longer bar, no?

<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
E-----------------------------------
C----------------------5-------
A----------------------5-------
G------------------4-------------
E--------------3------------------
C-------------------------------------
</pre></font>

Goin' after that G note in that "Split Slant" ...

Lots of Hawaiian steel playin' doesn't utilize full chords ... just "pieces" of them.

I always found a 2 3/4" bar adequate in terms of "reaching" notes in slant positions that I was usin' ... no matter where on the fretboard I was ...

But, use whatever bar you feel comfortable with ... in the style you wish to play.




------------------

<font size=1> Aiello's House of Gauss</font>

<font size=1>
My wife and I don't think alike. She donates money to the homeless and I donate money to the topless! ... R. Dangerfield</font>
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 22 March 2005 at 12:19 PM.]</p></FONT>

Here's my method.....

<SMALL>....need a longer bar, no?</SMALL>

Keep in mind that the length of the tone-bar will greatly effect the ability to control it's butt with the thumb in slants, with the index finger placed "properly".

Aloha,
DT~
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 March 2005 at 04:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

Howard,

I like your muting bar stuck in the slot (?) on the upper treble bout!

Aloha,
DT~<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 22 March 2005 at 04:36 PM.]</p></FONT>

Howard ... I gotta make you a couple of "Flying Saucers" ...

Howard,

Make that two, yeah and easy over, please..... yeah, hold the bacon too please...Tx

Rgds,
Ron

------------------
JCFSC member since 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,"59" Stringmaster D6
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's

Hey Howard it's a Bake-elite. not a Fry-elite!!!LOL tanx for keeping this topic a 'lil less serious . . .(don't ever change!!)