The Steel Guitar Forum

Yes Herbie, thats life in the big city now'a days. Don't worry man, I still love ya'. A lot of people don't know how to take me, do you think I care, no. I'm just an old biker steel picker and it don't matter. Who cares? Earnest, did the chea pet song come on when it was Christmas time? I love all of ya'.

Colby

So get on a bandstand, ever chance you get, pick it simple,
and you will steal the show, Just stay in time. and in tune,
With the Vocal. back up

Wise advice Herbie. Reminds me some of the most effective accompaniment is simple, clean and sparce. Less is more.

Herbie - the "sit down" part I can relate to, especially with a bad back!

But I think your background shows why you think steel is easier. For most players starting from sctartch on an instrument, standard guitar is both easier and has many more learning resources available.

Calvin - Glad we agree! I think we probably agree on more stuff than either of us think. It's a new year...a new start?

There are 27 responses to this topic, and 748 members have checked it out. That might be a pretty good average.
It's hard to draw conclusions from the numbers. Some may be reluctant to display their 'beginner' status. But I've never posted a question that I didn't get a bona fide answer to.
[Me, I'm 3rd on the list of posts per day. (I have less to say after a year or two of membership.)]

I read the Forum like the morning paper. It's great that I can post a 'letter to the editor' if I have something to add, but I usually don't. Like me, a lot of people are getting something from the Forum.

COLBY
I suspect your friendly, fun, attitude shines from behind that PSG. I know for some new Steel players, Jumping on the Band Stand at a packed joint, for the first gig, might be as nerve wracking, as jumping on a Harley for the first ride.
BUT Really, as I tried to say, above, and I think most agreed,
That's where the learning is, The stage never bothered me, I was a big Ham, and the Bands tolerated me, Where I soon learnt, Less Is More, but I do remember that first fully dressed Harley, and the ride through San Jose,CA, that took a while to turn loose and enjoy the ride.

Herbie

Thanks CHARLIE.
I don't know how to view those Stats. or if I can.
Hey there must be a lot of Steel Players in Texas.

And Joints still packing in the crowds,

Herbie

Ya know if you ask a question,
you can get an answer.
if you don't, then you get nothing.

If you state an opinion,
you can get a contrary opinion.

Doing the former gets you information you can use.

Doing the latter may, in many cases,
get MORE information,
but then you must pick and choose.

if you do a forum search,
which is effect asking a question,
that has already been answered,
you can get tons of info,
but then you must search out the RIGHT answers.

If you ask a question, in the form of stating
what you think is right,
then the worst that can happen is,
you might be wrong.

So you're wrong, don't sweat it.
we done all been wrong before.
When you get the answer...
then youse RIGHT from then on!

Herbie, your last post was right on the mark. I play in three different bands to include my church band and I could not hold a candle to most of the players on this board. I listen to many of them on youtube and other spots and they are phenominal. I can play within a song and I know when NOT to play. My theory within a song is; do no damage. Play within yourself and within the band and you will be just fine.

Your first question of the post was also interesting to me. I started a thread a while back that issentually said that if all steels sound the same and we depend on all the gadgets to change the sound then why spend $5000.00 for a steel. You should have seen the personal emails that I got because many did not want to get into the fray on the forum.

Post away! We all have an opinion, an idea and a thought. Remember, your steel playing knoweldge and ability is no reflection on what your true IQ is. It is only one part of your life and your self worth is not dependant on it.

For the most part the forum is very welcoming to us newbs, but ask certain questions and you will get a beatdown pretty quick. Dont ask about garcia, Carter Starters, Just temperment or whatever its called, etc. Not long ago there was an entire thread dedicated to questions that the regulars didnt like (couldnt find it in the search, sorry).

Its cool tho, its the net, I got thick virtual skin. The payoff in the knowledge gained is well worth the occasional smackdown.
So Im not afraid to ask. I will do a good thorough search tho before I ask anything, to see if its been covered a million times.

as for psg being not difficult. I respectfully disagree. Did i get the impression its hard from the tough guys on this forum? Nope. I play a few instruments and this one has been by far the most challenging (and interesting!) to try and learn. I'm on awe of all the incredible players on this forum and hope to be a goodplayer myself someday..scratch that..I WILL be a good player someday.

Not exactly. Though I'm certainly not new at this stuff, I've just decided to to far less posting because my posts usually start an argument between myself and other members. If I see someone who I feel might benefit from my compendium of experience, and I think I can assist them, I'll just e-mail them directly (or they can e-mail me, if they choose). That way, my views can either be graciously accepted...or easily forgotten.

At any rate, it will reduce the many "battles of opinion" that seem to have arisen here lately. Though I never previously understood why so many players avoided posting before, I have finally come to understand the rationale of their decision, and I both understand and respect their aversion to participation.

Life's too short for such contention...for me, anyway.

Man, I have learned so much on here from asking stupid questions, and reading the answers to other's questions. Sure you can try searching. But a lot of the best threads don't have titles that work good for searching; or you can get back too much stuff to have time to read it all. So sometimes it is best just to go ahead and ask the question. You might get back a good quick answer, or might be directed to the best threads from the past. If you don't ask questions, you just learn what other people happen to be talking about, not necessarily what you need yourself.

I hope I'm not one of "a few seeming to dominate
with their intalect arguments." Most of the stuff I throw out in discussions comes from what I learned from others here on the Forum, and I just want to give it back. And I've been wrong and gotten corrected plenty of times. Participating in discussions is one way to have your incorrect information fixed. Some of the electronics, tuning, or music theory discussions can get pretty complicated. I think when some of us get long winded, we're not trying to dominate or impress anyone, we're just trying to hash things out until all the good information comes out (can't speak for everybody on that). But for most topics, a short answer from real experience is what we're all looking for. Of course for some things, like tone, people have different experiences and opinions. But that's what makes horse racing, and spicey Forum discussions.

The one post I have seen that gets ALMOST every one come to blows is anything concerning the correct way to TUNE.I have read a lot of articles by some of the most prominent players in the world,I was reading one the other by a well known player that tunes every thing dead on 440,another temper tunes,some tune some notes a little flat,some a little sharp,SO WHAT? No matter how you tune if it WORKS for you ,why should there be so much heated debate about.IMO [mine only]this is one silly debate,almost as bad as arguing about what is the BEST steel guitar,If you play an Emmons,Zum.Cater,Bud,Williams,GFI,Reminton,etc,If you are HAPPY with it,then it's the best, they are all good guitars,so why argue which is the BEST?

Jim
i'm willing to give it a try

Beginners have one advantage. We aren't good enough to be concerned with all the fine points of tuning, settings, strings, equipment. We can just sit down and git to gittin'. And if those advanced problems crop up, that's good because it means progress.

As a beginner on pedal steel, and a REAL beginner on the related dobro and open tunings, I find the one strength I have is knowing the basis of how a song works...one to the four to the five to the one, etc., and the chord structure I've learned from being a hack guitar player for years and years.

It's SOOO much easier to play pedal steel when you can learn the basic 1-2-4-5-7-9 chord positions and be able to actually pretend to play the song.

And Herbie is correct. There is nothing that has kicked my playing up another notch than playing with other people who allow me to practice as they play. Jamming with like-minded friends, and finding a commonality through music, expresses me and gives me a learning experience like nothing else does, and performing under the same circumstances, while challenging, is just if not more education for my playing.

Good thread.

Thanks Calvin.

GORDY,
You are so right, Just playing the Chords while practicing, on The PSG, Also try to find the many places on the Steel, that you can make the same Chords, Using the pedals, all the way to the 12th fret, later you can go on beyond the 12th,

With a Band, just lay back, and play the Chords, when you hear something you think sounds good , push down on the volume pedal, try not to cover up the vocals,
It was only by making screw ups, that helped me learn more.

Try to make the Vocals sound good,
And those Jam sessions, and Tolerating Bands, is where the learning is. Most Bands will welcome any Steel Player who
will lay back, and toss in the simple stuff, They will be asking you back. So will the audience,

Herbie

Jim:where did you get that cool picture of that fried chicken?..Stu

I am afraid to ask b0b if i did it right this time.New puter and e mail addy.

STU, That fryed chicken might be a Turkey
that CALVIN, Sent to JIM.
A truce offering

Herbie

OK, guess I have said enough, hoping to help a new Steel Player.
Would like to say, I shared the stage and gigs, with four different members of ,The Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame, Picking Joints on The Weat Coast, When we were still wet behind the ears, Each one of these Boys, was playing a Lap Steel, E maj. tuning, at that time, slanting the bar, etc. later some was lucky enough to get a double neck Lap steel, to switch necks for the ,A tuning,

The only teachers we had, was listening to the records that was being played on Radio, and The Juke Box, which was also Lap steels, in various tunings, The E maj. dominant at that time,
we did learn from each other, The pedals and Knee levers, all came later, Hope this gives a new Steeler, some Ideas,
I would suggest, Strive to develope your own style,
My opinion,,, I think The Steel, has to be played ( By Ear ) after the simple basics are learned
And don't be Shy, about jumping in with any Band,
The Basics will be appreciated by most any Band,

Herbie

hehehehe...

I got the Pterodactyl from the real Nudie shirt. Anita took detailed pics of it for me - I have the dinos from the back as well, probably use that for an avatar later.

I wish it was my size...I'd be begging to borrow it for just ONE gig.

Calvin sent a turkey? Man, I wish it would get here...I'm starving!

Mike Wheeler wrote:I can say, truthfully, that I've learned many of the most important things in my life from inexperienced people asking "dumb" questions

Absolutely ! It's the dumb questions that a lot of people would like to ask and are afraid to demonstrate their lack of knowledge that generate some of the best responses. In fact sometimes the responses from experienced musicians to these "dumb" questions often brings out misconceptions held for decades.

I believe the number of amateur steel guitarists far outnumbers the professionals, and they're mostly out there learning in isolation. It's like designing and building your own washing machine instead of just buying one: people out there already designed it...

Oh! it's a Pterodactyl...I gotta get some better reading glasses,I was getting ready to call the Col....original or crispy?

To my Forumite Friends, I'm not trying to sell this
Just want you to hear what a studio can do with a Steel Guitar.
If this URL will bring up the Album, (You can click to play all in upper left corner )
Here is a weird experiment, I partisipated in , After the studio remixed everything
I have a hard time recognizing my own PSG in here,
The second Tune, "The Stage Leaves At Seven" I do recognize some of my weird
picking. most is, Randal Cousins, Dick Withers, and, Steve Petrie,


http://cdbaby.com/cd/randallcousins
Randall Cousins on the Purple Plateau

Below is a review of the Album,,,,,,,,,,,,,Herbie

I will say this, a shock to the system as I put the new CD by Canadian Randall Cousins in the CD player. At first I was expecting a country disk, as that is the normal outlet for Cousins, although it did have a strange title. On further investigation I found that this was by no means a country CD, but that happened to be a good thing this time around. An experimental electronic time travel into the unknown that could as easily be a Sci-Fi soundtrack as a musical experience.

With that said, I must say that for the style and sound, this CD is actually one of the better CDs of it's kind I have heard. No vocals, but many different "sounds" captured and ;layered together that I would expect to hear on the CBC's television show ZED. This is a true mind warp that is not for the fan of the norm, but still a great experiment into the netherworld as any I have heard. You can see yourself being taken to terrestrial plains for certain out of this world as you experience the sound and style of the entire project.

Although it may not have any vocals, the disk still has a continuous sound that takes your mind on a journey far beyond the normal imagination. The flow is evident and actually gives a spectacular feel as you are transported to the inner realms of near madness I was not expecting from Cousins. A wonderful escapist feel that not only holds your imagination, but almost certainly will bring you back for another taboo taste of experimentation. From guitars to synthesized hysteria, and only one bit of vocals that the CD credits were used without permission. A way out there project by Randall Cousins with help from Dick Whithers, Steve Petrie, and Herbie Meeks.

( 4.5 Stars out of 6 )