The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi Paul,

Thanks for sharing. Your comments have given me hope about my future as a steel player.

A couple of great country albums released recently, Jamey Johnson's "The Guitar Song" and Marty Stuarts "Ghost Train", both heavily feature steel guitar. Stuarts is Moon for crying out loud.

I would consider myself a guitar player/singer who owns a steel and I know alot of red dirt/texas country acts would probably love to have a full time steel player. They're hard to find. Especially in an age ranger closer to the average age of the red dirt guys. I wish pedal was more affordable so I could learn to play it but pedal steel has a pretty steep buy in and learning curve.

Dustin,

Steels are not expensive compared to old violins,violas, and cellos. Violins are so expensive, many are owed by collectors because musicians cannot afford them.

But they are expensive compared to guitars and basses. I don't know of too many guys who are buying Stradivarius instruments that are complaining about steel guitar cost. And I'm not even complaining. They're just simply more expensive than buying the other instruments associated with the context you would find a steel guitar in.

Pedal steel guitars have many more parts than a guitar or bass. Alot of cost involved, wood, mica, aluminum is expensive. Castings, parts, pickups, labor come into play when setting a price for any manufacturer building a pedal steel guitar.

Oh, how would you know?

Theresa Galbraith wrote:Pedal steel guitars have many more parts than a guitar or bass. Alot of cost involved, wood, mica, aluminum is expensive. Castings, parts, pickups, labor come into play when setting a price for any manufacturer building a pedal steel guitar.

I fully understand that. Not arguing that at all. But it does in fact make them more expensive. So most guys turn to the cheaper, easier, and more available option.

Dustin,

Come to the Framus guitar store in NYC. Top shelf electric six string guitar $23,000!

I've been thinking more about this lately...

I don't see pedal steel in general dying out; I see many aspects of the art of pedal steel dying out. Many of the newer players have more diversity in their musical backgrounds than they do tradition-oriented technique, so they seem to be playing less and less of what your average steel has. Soon there may generally be less instrument altogether — fewer levers, maybe only two pedals, maybe even fewer strings. Someone will still make a D-10 with 8x8 of course...

At some point, I think we'll see someone start mass-producing a standard steel — like seriously mass produced — and that will have it's own effect on the story.

So, my last lap steel student of the day and I retire to the Saloon downstairs each Saturday after her lesson, for an adult beverage and a little snack. I know all the staff and owner rather well since I dwell in the hotel above and one particular Saturday a month or so ago, we wandered into the Saloon during a power outage. Rob, the bartender, could still serve drinks and snacks, long as the reefer held, but no music.

My student had her axe and Robb asked if we'd mind playing in order to, hopefully, hold and draw a crowd. Why not? So we set up at the bar near one of the street entrances and jammed on Blues and Country a few hours with our little Pignose battery-powered amps to a quite receptive crowd.

Got just oodles of compliments, and too many free shots to recall, while holding the mixed crowd of hipsters, older folks and everyone in between.

So here's the kicker, Robb now has us play every Saturday once we get done the lesson, so we drop in once the morning band wraps up (yes, this Saloon has bands during the day on weekends) and play a few hours for drinks, food, and tips. Lots of laughs.

Anyhoo, lap steel is alive and kicking in the City by the Bay.

Is the ET tuning Emmons or Charlton

What an interesting thread. I joined here years ago when I was still playing in a band. I’m amateur, at best, and am humbled by the steel guitar trail blazers on this forum, always have been. You folks have always been my motivation to learn the PSG and strive to get better. Even as weak a player as I am, I have had people come up to me at gigs and compliment me, and of course the occasional “what is it” question. There’s always a buzz of interest around the steel. Most tell me I need to play more, which is exactly what I want to hear. I bought in to “less is more” when I first started playing and still believe in that.

A lot of changes in my life over the past several years really took me away from playing, and this forum. It’s been about 5 years since I played other than occasionally in my music room. But not a day has gone by that I haven’t heard a piece of music, with or without steel and heard myself filling in. It is something that, at least for me, is in my blood that consumes me. Those years I wasn’t playing, I seriously felt guilty. It is so much a part of who I am, I know I will die, a steel player. When I got the news that John Hughey died a couple years ago, I was crushed. I wished so bad that I had gotten an opportunity to meet him and tell him personally what an inspiration he had been to me. I wrote to his wife and told her how John’s music had inspired me, and of course ordered all his CD’s. She wrote me back a very sweet letter which I framed to hang in my music room. So sad that I never got to meet them. But it motivated me to get back in the chair and try to work on re-learning what I had lost.

I have finally started shaking off the rust and have been practicing again, and have joined the praise & worship team at our church. I’m only practicing with them so far, and they’ve been over anxious to get me playing on Sunday’s, but I keep telling them I want to know the music first and be comfortable with it. It is an “out of the box” experience for me, and a total challenge, but it has been really exciting to be back where I belong. Even better for me that I am out of the smoky bars and playing in church where I can use the talents God gave me for His purpose. I’m not knocking you guys who still play those gigs! I played a ton of them, in VFW halls, Moose lodges, and just about every Country venue around the Austin area, and wouldn’t take anything for all those experiences… We have a large P&W team that goes in shifts and each Thursday night at practice, I have new ones coming over to me and gushing over the steel guitar! Most of them are young’ns who have never seen one and usually ask me what it is. That’s pretty cool. I say, play every chance you get, even if it’s outside your box, keep planting the seeds. You never know who you will touch and when or how a new steel player will spring up.
I know this is long and boring, but it is important to me that you guys know I honor you for planting that seed in me 30 some years ago when I realized I had to find one and learn how to play it!

I worked a job last week. At the end of the night, a lady came up and said she was glad to see someone continuing a "dying art". I guess she has not see a pedal steel in awhile.

Just heard a new Maroon 5 song produced by Mutt Lange featuring Lady Antebellum with some nice pedal steel adornment: Bruce Bouton.

I love Maroon 5 music. Very cool for Bruce & steel guitar!
I'm off to Walmart to buy the CD and to buy Billy Currington's new CD.

It's refreshing to know that there are still ethical people who buy CDs. The reality is, you can have any music you want and you don't have to pay for it, if you don't want to.

My guess is when the majority of people hear a pedal steel, especially those who don't even know what it is, they automatically think Country. When I hear it, I usually think Country. There's nothing wrong with that. Change takes time. I think the future of the pedal steel will follow that of one of its contemporaries, the Hammond B3.

The steel is in many ways related to the Hammond: Both were introduced in the early part of the last century, relatively late in music history Both are unique in that they do not sound like anything preceeding them. And both were initially pigeonholed into a specific genre of music. So ask yourself, whenever you hear a Hammond on a recording, do you immediately think "Gospel?"

Chances are, probably not. Now, someone could play the B3 in a certain style, using the proper settings, that would without question make you think of Gospel. So you can't really say that the sound of the B3 has been divorced from Gospel, and I don't think it ever will. But for the majority of B3 playing, I don't think there's any mental connection to the Gospel style. In fact, we're to the point now where there are mental associations with the later styles, like Classic Rock or R&B. This is where I see the future of the pedal steel, where one does not immediately associate it with Country, except when played in a certain style. I don't think we're as far as the Hammond yet, although we are headed in that direction.

Mental associations with particular genres like Country or Gospel begin to erode over time for two reasons.

1) The body of music in new genres becomes larger than the body of music in the old genres such that you hear the new styles more frequently than the old styles. If you listen to 10 songs a day that have B3 in them, and only one (or more likely, none) is in the Gospel genre, your brain is just not going to associate the B3 with Gospel the way it did when everything you heard with B3 was Gospel. This is just a function of the number of players of an instrument. More people play the B3 than the pedal steel, so new styles developed and grew more quickly. This is why people don't associate the piano or guitar with any one genre.

2) New generations are a clean slate. They don't have to fight decades of memories associating the pedal steel with Country like the older ones of us do. That's why those of us born after 1960 don't associate B3 with Gospel at all. There was simply too much "other" B3 music out there.

As I mentioned above, there are still some sounds and techniques on the B3 that are still exclusively played in Gospel. These will continue to be associated exclusively with Gospel unless those techniques are incorporated into other genres. 50 years from now, there will probably still be certain licks on the E9 that are inescabably linked with Country. So much the better.

Compared to the B3, the pedal steel will take longer to break its association with Country because it came onto the scene slightly later, and there are far fewer players. But I'd be willing to bet that 50 years from now, the pedal steel will be where the B3 is now in terms of association with a particular style.

There are a few other physical trends I think you'll see as the pedal steel progresses:

-Double necks will dominate as long as there are still lots of used double necks to be had. After that, I think it will be replaced by the lighter S10 C6 or S12 Universal. E9s will be relegated to Country and Folk-based genres, much like the archtop guitar is with jazz. I just don't think people are going to keep carrying around 60, 70, 80 lb. double necks when there are much lighter, equally versatile options. Younger players will pick up the Universal necks more readily because they don't have to un-learn the old necks. I think there will eventually be one standardized instrument, much in the same way the modern piano has developed from multiple older instruments.

The mass of cranks and rods in the undercarriage will be replaced by an electronic servo changer that will:
-respond more naturally to the player (think power steering vs non-power steering)
-eliminate cabinet drop
-offer any combinations of changes you want, immediately programable
-always return the string to the right pitch.
This will encourage the development of a standardized instrument, so it's difficult to guess what the final form of the steel will be. With so versatile a changer, a 10 string universal might be possible.

I don't think (as some forumites have suggested) we'll see virtual pedal steels, where the strings and pedals are just triggers for a synthesizer that reproduces pedal steel sounds. We may see something like a MIDI guitar, where the point is to utilize different sounds, or layer other sounds over the guitar's own sound. But I don't think the steel is in danger of being replaced by a MIDI steel (does anyone here think the electric 6-string is in danger of being replaced by the MIDI guitar?)

As far as cultural trends, who knows? I know for certain what I would like to see. I hope that pedal steel will be used where it adds to the music, and not just because someone thinks it needs to be there. So much pedal steel (and fiddle) on Modern Country sounds like an afterthought, like it's only being put there because some exec thinks they'll lose their market base if they don't sound different from the Pop artists. I've got news for you...most modern Country artists are Pop artists, they just don't know it yet. All this is doing is hurting the quality of Modern Country music, and prolonging the association of the pedal steel with that one genre. Instruments should be used for musical reasons, not business reasons. I'm not saying Country artists shouldn't use pedal steel or fiddle, and there are plenty of tracks out there with creative, inspiring work on them. But when a song doesn't want those instruments, you can immediately tell, and the licks sound tired and artificial.

I think pedal steel use will diminish in Modern Country for the reasons listed above, as it grows in other genres. It is already widely used in Alt-Country, Folk, Tex-Mex, and all those other unclassifiable artists I lump under "fringe" music. It has even found use in Black Gospel music. As those fringe genres become more accepted by the mainstream, the number of players will rise, and exciting things will happen. Bottom line is, I wouldn't lose any sleep worrying about the future of the instrument. My guess is it will still be around when humanity blows itself into nuclear oblivion. Now that, I would lose sleep over.

Drew

P.S. A little about me - I am a 27 year old piano player that picked up the steel 4 years ago. So there are plenty of young players out there just discovering the instrument now. I don't claim to be any kind of great player, I just play the very basics and that's it. I play an S-10 E9 in a Roots Rock/Folk type band.
(Props go to Doug Palmer, another forum member, who helped me find and learn to play the infernal contraption )

and that's saying alot for your first post!

I'll buy that, Drew.

I have met with about 6 new players in the last 6 months. These are people of all ages who love the sound, bought one, want to learn to pick a tune or two. I do no think steel will ever go away.

Because of the down turn in the economy the big clubs are not booking or paying like they use to, but the critter clubs and casinos and churches are still going strong in Oregon. I just landed a sit down job that has afforded me the opportunity to buy another steel, so I am doing my part to keep the cash flowing and the traditional country steel sound alive.

Larry Behm

I am happy for everyone here that is listened to, enjoyed, and employed on their steels. My experience is exactly the opposite, so I guess I am unigue here. I used to play 5-6 nights a week. For a while I made a living as a "free lancer". Sitting in cold with different bands night after night. I supported my family that way. For a long time...

These days, I can't buy a steel guitar gig, and playing just pedal steel anymore is OUT.. I am now required to sing lead , LOTS of lead, and play lead 6 string as well.. I see no other steel players anywhere anymore, no one wants them, no one will hire them, and no one cares.
I could sell my steel right now pretty much, and be no worse off.

Is this the same forum where all the members have been griping about the acute lack of work for steel players????.. My, what a remarkable turnaround!
Maybe it will reach to where I live some day.

Steel guitar dead???... Perhaps not in the grand scheme of things, However, out in the no mans land of local music venues,,..... well, I dunno... Maybe I am just old, bitter and out of touch.


Its dead for me, as well as everyone I know that plays it . Maybe its just regional, but I sure do remember a LOT of griping on this forum past few years about the LACK of steel in modern music, as well as a lack of interest from prospective employers or collegues.
Again, perhaps I will see this grand resurgence in my neck of woods before very long.

Drew Wofford wrote: I think the future of the pedal steel will follow that of one of its contemporaries, the Hammond B3.

the pedal steel has nothing to do with the b3. the b3 has a deep library in jazz and in pop music. the steel has no history in these genres...only country and a couple more very esoteric genres such as hawaiin and western swing, neither of which compare with pop and jazz popularity wise.

the steel guitar has lived and died with country....it always has. one robert randolph cannot give it a new life.

you can only hope that the future brings in some new players who are not so steeped in country and learn it in a way that it does not sound like a country player trying to cross over and play another kind of music and bringing his country baggage with him.

i think the E9 tuning is not the way of the future for the pedal steel. it is just too easy to fall into the country sounding trap with it. i cringe when i hear a pedal player playing with a pop or a jazz group and hear that sound of the two left pedals!

Wow; what an interesting topic, thank you Mr. Franklin for asking these questions. I must admit I am a big fan of your work, the solo you played on "Walk of Life" on Mark Knopfler's "A Night in London" show just knocks me out!

I am a singer-songwriter myself, although not at Knopfler's level; I do believe this style of music may be the future savior for steel guitar. I love listening to all types of country-influenced music and try to support other musicians by buying their CD's.

In this type of newer material I think it would be hard to beat the music being put out by Peter Cooper, he has Lloyd Green on steel, and in addition to being my personal favorite on steel, I don't think that Lloyd has ever played better or been in a more sympathetic environment to have the freedom to play whatever he wanted!

Correct me if I am wrong, but I imagine that this is what you experienced working with Mark Knopfler, again your interplay w/Knopfler and Sonny Landreth on the tune "Gravy Train" is sublime!

I consider myself to be primarily a "Rock" musician, but of course I think you can include multiple other genre's to that by adding a simple suffix to the "Rock"...

I love playing anything with strings, and I am working on Bouzouki right now, (thanks to Richard Bennett's help), but I do not think anything with strings sounds as beautiful or has more possibilities as the pedal steel guitar!

you can only hope that the future brings in some new players who are not so steeped in country and learn it in a way that it does not sound like a country player trying to cross over and play another kind of music and bringing his country baggage with him.

My last 2 union sessions, I was warming up pushing the pedals around and the first thing each producer said was, "no Nashville."

Bill, I don't think you took my meaning correctly. I wasn't saying the two instruments were involved in similar genres; they're not. They're about as far away as you can get. I was trying to make the point that the pedal steel would grow in popularity through the same processes the B3 did, only much slower because there are fewer players.

As traditional country is fading, Alt-country is more than replacing it in terms of sheer numbers. Many of those bands have steel players, and many of these players have developed a less "countrified" style of playing - listen to the steel on Son Volt's "Left a Slide".

Don't forget, the steel already went through a growth spurt in the 60's and 70's with country rock. I think it's this sound that influences contemporary players moreso than traditional country.

I agree E9 tuning is the least versatile because of its distinctive Country sound. However, I'd be willing to bet if our great grandchildren grow up hearing E9 sounds in pop, jazz, rap, or whatever the heck they listen to then, they won't think it the slightest bit distasteful. I'm pretty sure back in the 50's, most older adults cringed the first time they heard distortion on a guitar. Everything is relative.