The Steel Guitar Forum

Roger Rettig wrote:...in light of the prospect of getting old here with the outrageous health-care conditions, we've considered it ourselves...

Because of the complete lack of a proper national health care system in this country I'm thinking of moving back to England when I retire.

Roger and Allan,
You had better hurry,
We are almost full
Billy

We'd better not get started on that again - remember that Canadian guy who called us a load of spongers?



Well - I have Medicare (I'm nearly 67 and was lucky enough to qualify having worked and paid taxes in the US since 1998); it costs me each month (plus a supplemental insurance) but the stuff I've had done so far all seems to have been paid for.

Retire??? There's a novel concept! Not this steel-player - he can't afford it!

Billy: The last time I was driving round the Highlands it looked like there was plenty of space. I don't take up that much room.

Roger: Are you aware that you can ask that your Social Security contributions be considered seperately in England and the US ? You CAN pool them, under an international agreement, but I've made 15 yrs. of contributions in England followed by 30 years contribution in the US, so I will be able to collect Social Security on BOTH sides of the Atlantic simultaneously, quite legally. I'm 64 now, by the way.

I get paid a modified UK Pension (80% of State Pension because I stopped paying in to the system in '98) and I also qualified for Social Security here in the US.

BUT - do you know what those crooks at the DSS did?????

They first said I'd qualified - with my ten years of US work - for about $300 pcm (not much, I know, but a lot of my work is on a 10-99), then they asked about my UK pension, and declared a 'Windfall Tax' on it, and reduced the amount they pay me by 50%!!!!!

I work for 80% of my career in the UK and recieve the correct 80% pension - I work for ten years here, but DON'T get my entitlement!

Bloody rogues! I should have said nothing about the UK monies!

Alan Brookes, Why don't you just pack up and leave now and save & leave all the suffering and pain you're going through. I know there are folks that want to live their lives through in the USA! How much Blood are you gonna leave us with. Jay Y.

Roger, I think you need to consult an attorney. Unfortunately it will probably cost you more than he'll be able to get you in increased pension.

Jamie... see what you're getting into ? I think it's ridiculous that people can draw lines on maps and create so many difficulties. I have the same problem in my work. Other than differences in tax structures, there's very little difference in Accountancy throughout the world, but you can struggle to become a fully-qualified accountant, then move across a national border and suddenly you're totally unqualified.

Jay Yuskaitis wrote:Alan Brookes, Why don't you just pack up and leave now and save & leave all the suffering and pain you're going through. I know there are folks that want to live their lives through in the USA! How much Blood are you gonna leave us with. Jay Y.

Here we go, there's always some malevolent soul out there ready to go straight for the throat. You are, of course, a native American. You're not living on stolen land.

rodger rettig, I've been working in the USA for 46 years, I was born here in 1942, what makes you think you deserve what I'm entitled to? Did you come here to make a new life, or blood suck us dry?
Jay Y.

Alan, I may be living on stolen land from the AMERICAN natives, but I have not bloodsucked the USA dry. If you're not happy here, LEAVE, whats so hard about THAT!!!
Jay Y.

Jay Yuskaitis wrote:rodger rettig, I've been working in the USA for 46 years, I was born here in 1942, *what makes you think you deserve what I'm entitled to? Did you come here to make a new life, or blood suck us dry?
Jay Y.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."*I don't see any reference there to excluding Roger Rettig, or even Greek immigrants.

And, by the way, if I could leave the country tomorrow I would gladly do so. I didn't come here by choice, and I shall have to work until I drop to pay off student loans. My education is England was a public right. My American-born daughters never had the rights and priviliges that I was born into.

Jay Yuskaitis wrote:Alan, I may be living on stolen land from the AMERICAN natives, but I have not bloodsucked the USA dry. If you're not happy here, LEAVE, whats so hard about THAT!!!
Jay Y.

How dare you suggest that I have bloodsucked the USA dry. I have worked solidly and diligently since I set foot in the USA, and I shall probably work solidly until I drop. I ask for nothing more than I've earned.

See, Alan? I warned you, but here's another broad-minded genius shining the light of reason on the issue.

He can't have meant me, though - my name's not spelled that way....

(In case he did mean me, let me correct him and say that I expect my ten years' entitlement - just as he has his 46-year amount. For them to reduce their payment to me because I'm getting my just rewards for 37 years' work in Britain is outrageous.)



I think I'll sit down and work out how much I owe the US Government in taxes for '09; shall I pay it off by the dollar or the pint, I wonder?

There are some strange folk on here, to be sure!

...and don't forget Roger, that all that tax money you're paying to the Federal and State Governments
is sucking the blood out of the system.

Small-minded nationalists have to find someone to blame.
They're all over the world. It's that "we're the best" idea that creates most wars.

Its funny that the people most resembling national socialists today call the current president a nazi, very Orwellian. Alan Roger and Jamie, Thank you for coming here and paying taxes!

I think that we all need to remember that with the
exception of native Americans, we are all immigrants: some first generation some second and some 12 th generation Americans.

The bible clearly states that "the earth is the Lord's and all that is in it"

When the Lord looks down he only sees two kinds of people: the saved and the lost. The terms American and British are just humanistic terms created by power hungry colonists drawing lines on God's earth!

Thank you, Steve. You're a gentleman. I think you echo what most people over here feel. I've never been treated like a foreigner. I've always felt that everyone is a citizen of the world, and nationalities are things created by people long gone who drew property lines on maps. I have friends in many countries, and I regard them all as equals.

tbhenry wrote:...The terms American and British are just humanistic terms created by power hungry colonists drawing lines on God's earth!

Exactly. I shall be in England for most of February, but while I'm there I won't feel like I have a God-given right to the place. What most people don't realise, by the way, is that, unlike Native Americans, there are no Native English. The English only migrated to England from North-Western Europe between 500 and 1000 AD, displacing the Celts, who themselves had migrated there a thousand years earlier, displacing the Beaker People. We don't own the Earth, we just use it for a few years. It will still be here long after we're all gone. We have to respect it and respect each other.

b0b: please don't close this topic. We'll drift back into it.

Steve - it's appreciated.

TB - Well said; you too, Alan.

And my every good wish goes to Jamie in his endeavours. If an old hack like me can pull it off, anyone can!

Alan, Roger, Others,

Obvioisly, there's a plan to remodel our healthcare system here in the US. It's being called socialized medicine and we're told by some, that doesn't work anywhere else in the world. Can you give us a brief summary of how your healthcare system works in the UK, what it cost, taxes there vs. here, quality of care, how long it takes to see a doctor, etc..... I'm afraid the comments I get here are from people that don't know and are only echoing something they've heard in a political context.

This is not meant to be political so no arguments folks, let's just let people that experience both sides of the situation tell us straight up how it works. Just informative, no opinions, just the facts please.

Rick: I haven't lived in England for 30 years, but, briefly, everyone pays an NHI contribution (National Health Insurance), which is deducted from their pay. In return one receives health and dental care. There's no turning anyone down because of existing conditions, and everyone is covered, even Americans visiting England. A similar situation exists over most of Europe. To give a comparison, I had a hernia operation in Birmingham, England, in 1976. I was diagnosed one day, operated on a week later, kept in hospital for a week, and everything healed perfectly. I had the same operation on the other side at Kaiser Hospital, Oakland, CA, in 1989. I had to wait six weeks, they performed the operation under local anaesthetic, wheeled me into an adjacent room with other people, and told that when I was ready I could dress and go home. That operation has never healed properly, and I've been weak on that side ever since.

No-one in England ever receives a medical bill. No-one ever bankrupts themselves or their families because of illness. The treatment is better and prompter. Would you rather a doctor made decisions about your health or an insurance company ?

Europeans who come over to the U.S.A. as tourists are terrified of being taken ill during their stay, and often take out short-term health insurance policies to cover them while abroad.

But it goes much, much further than that. Care for the aged in Europe is much better. For instance, my mother, during her last years of life, was an invalid. She was visited by the District Nurse twice a week, and had a home help, provided by the City of Birmingham, who came in every day, cleaned her house, cooked meals for her, made her bank deposits, posted her letters. All that cost her nothing at all. In the USA it would have bankrupted her family.

Forget the idea of "Socialised Medicine". That's a term made up by the insurance industry so that people would associate it with Socialism, which big business has always spent so much time demonizing. The correct term is "National Health", or "Universal Health Care".

What I can never understand is the objections over here coming from industry. In Europe no company has to worry about providing health care to its staff: they just pay NHI contributions, like our FICA, and never have to worry about it.

People have been brainwashed into thinking that anything run by any sort of government is inefficient. Well, I've worked in government for 15 years in England, and for 5 years in California, and in private companies for 25 years in California. My observation is that people in government work A LOT HARDER and more diligently than they do in the private sector. The biggest inefficiencies are, by far, in the large corporations, but since the public has no access to their inner workings, it's covered up.

If you think of all the paperwork that goes on between doctors, hospitals and insurance companies, making claims, suing each other, etc., it's an enormous burden on the health care system. That's why American health care costs more than anywhere else in the world, but such a small proportion is actually spent on health care. With a single-provider system all that paperwork disappears. There are NO medical claims, NO disputes between insurance companies, NO attornies' fees.

Those politicians arguing about the potential inefficiencies of government-run health care are all receiving government-run health care themselves. If they don't like it they should refuse it on principle. They don't, because they know that government-run industries are the most efficient.

I'm not introducing politics into the discussion. I'm not pointing fingers. I was asked about the health care system in this country compared to more-enlightened countries, and I've answered to the best of my ability...

Alan,

They you so much. I was glad to hear this. I've heard the same thing from others that have lived there. You confirmed what I thought, the people here that are so against any healthcare reform, don't even what they're talking about. I can see nothing wrong with your program. I hope we get something similar going here, and take the burden of healthcare off the people.

And besides it all Jamie's' love for his music and his girl took him away from the safety of the UK system, I applaud him for his courage.

Pat and I were to go to Hawaii in the late 60's, we may have stayed, but we lacked the courage to leave this country with its (Sometimes dubious) benefits. Had we moved there I wonder if we'd have been more readily accepted in the Hawaiian Music Scene ?
Well, whatever.. At least we can grow old knowing that we'll be cared for if needed.

Steve Norman = descended from 1840's Irish potato famine immigrants,

BTW in Europe, its my understanding that the citizens pay less than 30% tax for all this "socialism",


Edit: Rest deleted cause the IRS can )*&*^&%

Thank you Alan - that's an accurate and succinct description of how National Health works in the UK.

Read it carefully, folks - wouldn't you like a system like that in place here? There's no such thing as one's insurance 'running out', no quibbling about what someone will pay for and what they won't.

Everyone pays into the scheme, their contributions being proportionate to their earnings, and no stigma of 'pre-existing conditions' to disqualify anyone from across-the-board care.

Is there a downside? Not really, although as with any vast programme run by human beings there are breakdowns at times, but everyone is cared for and no-one gets a bill.

My place is here in the USA now with my American wife, and there are many wonderful facets to life here. The healthcare system, however, isn't one of them. I accept the status quo here and I meet my obligations as a Lawful Permanent Resident, but that's no reason for me not to voice my opinion on the pitfalls as I see them.

Good post, Alan!