The Steel Guitar Forum

this really hurts all,Emmons has been here for us for so long.I don't even begin to understand,just hope and pray it can be solved.No John i don't own any stock in the company at all.I just hurt when others are hurting.don't like to see no one done wrong.yes my heart bleeds for Emmons,it must be pure hell going thru what i'm sure they are.being a poor guy most my life,always robbing from peter to pay paul.just trying to make it.and yes for cor to,i'm sure he wants to get this straightend out.i'm not going to say no more,just pray for it to get straightend out.many companys go for bankrupt then nobody don't get nothing. i give them credit as far as i know this hasn't taken place.tells me something. farris

Danny that is an incredible offer From Rains and speaks volumes for sombody else`s business ethics!
When I made my original suggestion on this topic that everyone sends me ten bucks and I account for it and we as a group could reimburse Cor the response so far has been less than impressive! I think we still have some way to go to harness the power of this forum.
This was not done to get the Emmons Co off the hook,more to shame them into doing the right thing!!
And while I think about it, anyone who sends ten bucks and does not want to be named in my "good guy" list to be published later, let me know and you can remain anon.

at first i would say thank you all guys here for reading and posting.

but i like to thank Danny first because he was the only one that really knows this story because of his phone call he did then with Ron,jr.

and he knows that i was paying the $4500,00
and now i'm reading here that Rebecca says that they never received the money, they are lying everytime. they cashed it on 9 december 2003 by a moneygram office in the same street as where they settled.

and let me point out here something that i already said earlier,

i never pay in front ( only $500,00 to process the order ).

but i pay for a guitar that should be ready but was laying on stock for me,but after i called them and say i have the money and it comes right next to you in a minute, they said okay we will hold it up there at the moneygram office . i was sending $4000,00 plus the $500,00 in front makes $4500,00 9 december 2003.

and then when i called them if they received it they said Cor we sold your guitar and you agree with that.
so i was totally suprised because i never send so much money for nothing, but tricky from them to tell me after i was sending and they where cashed it.

anyway so naief i was i told ron build me a new one and he says okay, i ask how long does it takes he stated 12 till 18 weeks
i said okay in march or april.
Well then at the end of may nothing but my healthy was going worser because of my big caraccident i was having 2 years before.
and it was so worse that i must decide to quit with playing and don't wanna put a brand new expensive guitar under my bed, so i called ron and told him the news and he said ooh your guitar is just finished and it looks good i would take pictures.
i said yes but find another customer for it and he said okay but you have to wait till i found someone and then you could get your money back i said okay but not to long ,and he said okay we will do our best.

then a couple month's later i hear nothing and put here on the forum if there was maybe something wrong there because of the silence.
then danny came in and ask me if he could help me to sell it for me because he has more customers or contact's
and i said okay danny do me a favor and called ron,jr and ask for my guitar.
wel he did right after our phonecall and he found out the guitar was never build.

and he also knows that i have paid for $4500,00 because ron,jr told him that many times and now somebody came up here with the message from Rebecca that they never received my money ( rediculous ain't it? )

well any way hoping you guy's and great forumites will now see the other side of the story and that i'm not telling lies or rumors it is absolutely true and i was a big emmons fan and lover so it hurts me more then you will ever know!!
finally after 20 years order a emmons and gets this.

and Ronald keep building your own steels they look great and if they sounds as they looks ''KEEP IT BUILDING MY FRIEND''

so my hands keep coming painfull from typing here
so i like to say till next time and thank you all here

and don't forget it is not my style to keep them down but they will doing it to themselves on this way and on the other way
nobody deserves it to stay in the busyness as they do it like this way.

(and here at the end of my writing i like to thanks John Davis because of his experience he is doing on this case.)

Cor<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 28 October 2004 at 09:54 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 28 October 2004 at 09:55 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 28 October 2004 at 12:53 PM.]</p></FONT>

and bump this thread up many times as needed.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

cor

.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:05 PM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>That's the problem. No guitar. No refund.</SMALL>

No guitar means...
Emmons / Lashley never used the parts for this instrument,
nor the labor.
If there WAS partial labor, it was on another guitar long since sold...
whichever color orset up it had..

An arbitrary rule about build list is the purest BS,

a) they took the money,
b) the order was cancelled before delivery
c) the order was cancelled before it was built
d) if ANY parts were pre-ordeded or colated for this specific guitar, they have long since gone off on another guitar of some set up.
e) The difference in color, or exact setup is irrelevant because it is likely the cost of another similar color,
it is likely the cost of another set up, or the parts get used on a 3rd possible instrument.

f) no delivery, then on to return of payment list..
This is based on the laws of most any state.
And likely federal inter-state laws as well.

The arguements by Ron are totally arbitrary,
and specious at best.
Is he the boss? Or is it a commeittee of 3?

Is this company so big, like Enron, they have no ability to deal with things on an instrument by instrument, case by case, sale by sale basis.

Their arguments DO NOT hold water.

But they do make one think the company
is on the edge,
and that it will not treat a customer fairly.


I think the $4,500 will be the least of the company's problems ongoing...
The public goodwill is in the hopper.

How many people here would put down a deposit with this company...
when so many used steels are out there.

And then even with a used one,
I wouldn't feel good sending cash for more parts...

You have several potential customers publicly saying : I won't buy...
How many non posters think the same?

Worse yet, I hate to see Buddy's family name dragged though the mud,
when he is in no way at fault here.

In essences a Lashley Public relations catastrophy.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 October 2004 at 05:02 PM.]</p></FONT>

I think you got that about right David,
But if you fart in a spacesuit you have to live with the smell!!!!!
Sorry have I gone off topic here??

I do not know all of the facts on this topic. All I know is what I have read on the Forum. I believe that applies to most of us.

Let's assume that Emmons decides to produce a guitar for Cor. One would think that would be a very good public relations decision; however, do you think it is too late? Has there been permanent damage to the company's reputation?

------------------
Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

HELLO LEE,i'd say no,it's not to late.Emmons don't have to answer to us!their deal was with Cor.,and if he canceled the order,and screwed things up.they are just like so many other companies with a long waiting list!!Just my opinion!!!!Why would they come on here,and go to blabbing??
not to smart in my judgement!!!!! farris

Farris i thought you were a nice man
you didn't understands the issue!!!!

i didn't cancellled the order i say ron,jr sell it to another customer i can't play it
but it was never build instead of ron,jr said it was ready to go so they lie to me and still do.
and they didn't contact me or responde on my emails but they owe me my $4500,00

i didn't understand that this is possible in the states, as say before by the two other people from the netherlands here on this, by us in the netherlands it isn't possible to do this through customers.


so read the post carefully before you come up with things!!!!

sorry thats my opinion everytime you come up here with something.

ooh' and Lee thanks for coming in but i heard that i'm not the first one that have trouble with them and if i had ever know it before i can tell you that i wouldn't do busyness with them.

and jimmy and all of you guys here i order a rains steelguitar and will lay it under my bed hoping in the future i can go on with steel playing.

but this has never anything to do with the emmons story.


greetings guys

cor <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:01 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:07 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:21 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:28 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:28 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cor Muizer Jr on 29 October 2004 at 08:30 AM.]</p></FONT>

and i will take off here,

you all guys here know what is going on said by me by Danny and by John.

and for the last time it is true!!!!!!!


cor

ooh sorry forgoy to say

if you look for a new guitar that is perfectly build and sounds as good as is look

call Bob Rains and order you one

in my opinion taste is a personal thing but nothing can beat this great guitar

so thats the last one here

cor

Cor.

You can't argue over taste.
IMHO Emmons build the best Steel guitars ever made.And uptill now they continue to do so.What has happened to you has nothing to do with the fact that the Emmons guitar is a great sounding and playing instrument.I owned two guitars made by Emmons and never had any problems with them.
All of us agree on the fact that if you are entitled to a refund you should have it.

I can understand Farris' point of view when it comes to the Emmons company.The only thing that he would like to say is that there are so many Steelers around the world that would hate to see Emmons go down the toilet.
I can understand that there is nothing you would rather see.If it were me i would think the same way.And it sure is a good thing that you are being compensated by Rains guitars.Allthough i am not sure if they are the ones that should do so.

Please don't get me wrong about this because you and I have always been good friends and i would love to stay that way.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 29 October 2004 at 10:26 AM.]</p></FONT>

hello cor,does this mean that you have got your rains??have you played one yet?just wondering way it sounds you must have had access to one, man i'd like to know myself!!
do you really like it that well??let me know i'm very interested in how it is playing for you?????? farris

.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:05 PM.]</p></FONT>

HEY JIM,thinking of you last night on the news was talking about old mexico, and rats in one town was chasing the cats ect.can't do nothing with them.you having any problems with that? better watch your guitars, might eat them too! man thats hard to believe wow, have a good night JIM
farris

.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:05 PM.]</p></FONT>

Good point about America, Jim.

I often wondered how much trouble legit businesses in Nigeria encounter. I know I wouldn't deal with them, even though I know in my heart that the crooks are a small percentage.

Ah yes the old stiff the foreigner ploy.

They don't matter they are not in out legal jusrisdiction.
Or not in our normal demographic, or
heck they's strangers, not like" US."

But Jim's point on it being a bad reflection on America is telling also, and a new twist..

Yes folks the world is watching us RIGHT NOW.
To see what we think, and how we act.
Just like we are watching Lashley...

It is very possible our individual actions will have both small and grave consequences ,
for ALL americans in and out of the USA proper.
The board of directors is about to make a decision,
that affects everything, not just company functioning and policy,

And all others are watching and waiting to decide,
what they wil do in concequence or responce.

Just as this one incident over a pedal steel is being reflected world wide,
and no doubt affecting the future of Lashley in some way negatively.
Our actions as individuals will also be seen and interacted with world wide also.

DO we all acknowledge we are not alone, like Lashley should,
or think, gee we run our own show, no one else matters.

The USA may be a big country,
but it's a small world....

Lashley may make a great steel, but people are watching and deciding if they want to deal with them...
Are there no parallels here?
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 October 2004 at 11:30 PM.]</p></FONT>

Is there anyone on the forum that has a copy of the Emmons-policy on paper?
Maybe the Emmons-company itsself?Would make things more clearer here on the forum, without getting into an emotional rash.
If I understand right:
Emmons cashed the money from Cor, and also sold the guitar to another customer? Am I confused, or did they cash $9K for a guitar?
As long as there is no clear statement on paper from Emmons about this issue, there is nothing to agree or disagree with them.
Cor, I hope there is a solution. Please, stay friendly to the Emmons company, and record every phonecall with them. Maybe then you have a point
regards and take care!
Johan

Johan

The Emmons company should have a policy copy on the internet aswell because you can order from the internet.I have looked for one on their site but i do not see one.

<SMALL>As long as there is no clear statement on paper from Emmons about this issue, there is nothing to agree or disagree with them.</SMALL>

What you are saying is that there can't be anything done..
I totaly disagree with you on that.If there is no such policy then they are entitled to collect and decide wether to build or not to build a steel??


Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

<SMALL>I doubt if the average American is very aware of it, but having lived outside the U.S. for about a year now I've become aware that the eyes of the world are upon the U.S. and our actions. The world is very interested in the goings on in the U.S. and even just how we act as a people. I believe most of the world has respect for America and Americans, even if some don't particularly seem to like us.</SMALL>

Jim:
people in the whole world are worried, about what' s going on in political ways. This has nothing to do with the normal people like us! policies that are 'discussable' have their roots everywhere in the world. I have personally never met an American a$$hole, and I hope I never will!
regards, Johan

David

If this incident alters a persons thoughts about America they are out of their mind.It does not alter my thoughts about you people.
People may agree or disagree about some issue's on the forum now and then.But that does not give 'em the right to think that all American's are the same.

<SMALL>Jim's point on it being a bad reflection on America is telling also, and a new twist..</SMALL>

It takes a lot more to make me change my mind about America.There are a few rotten apples in the basket and they spoil everything.
But that won't say that all you people look bad.I got some nice folks on my MSN messenger that are Americans and they are a lot nicer then some folks around here.I always get a response when i ask them something about steel guitars or other questions

People are people.
Everybody makes misstakes........i sure do.

Ron

Nikaro SD10 4x6

Someone said that Rebecca lied, about not receiving Cor's check, when infact he has the cancaeled check that shows where they cashed it.
The fact is, this isn't the first time that Both the Lashleys have lied to a customer there good at it, and when your on the phone with them asking about your guitar, they will tell you just what you want to hear,So they can get you off of the phone, knowing full well in what there telling you is a bold face lie..
How do I know? It happened to me and 5 other fellow steelers awhile back.
I have 9 different shipping dates that Rebecca gave me over the phone before they actually did ship my steel , but that was 6 months after all of the 9 shipping dates and UPS tracking numbers she gave me.
So I contacted the Attorney general in my state and in North Carolina as well,
And they both took my case with no problems at all, the difference between how I went about dealing with The Emmons co. and what Cor done is, I audio taped every conversation that Rebecca or Ron and I had via telephone,after the second phone call with the company and being told two different stories.
So when I called the attorney generals office and told them my suitation , they sent me forms to fill out and return back to them , along with mu support papers showing where I had paid for my steel, but I also sent them 2 audio tapes of our phone converstion from all of the past months of being told one thing or another and where she mentioned 9 different times it was to be shipped , It wasnt very long after they received the forms and tapes, I got a phone call telling me that my steel would be shipped within a few days..
And this time she did't lie about it, they did ship for once..
But I would never buy anything from them two again.

Yes Billy, I remember your problem quite well.
It had this forum in quite an uproar, between defenders of the company and supporters of your side.

I always remember the late Harry Hess when I think of your problem. Harry went far out of his way to help you.

I was surprised when you sold your new Emmons so fast.
I saw your ad on the same day Harry passed away. I thought that was so ironic.

There's many similar stories, such as http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007315.html

Some have suggested Buddy should get involved.
Page Two of this link has his comments.