The Steel Guitar Forum

Tim.
You’re absolutely correct. No need for me to pm you an apology. I’ll do it publicly. I sincerely apologize to you. My feelings about the great Buddy Emmons run deep, as he was a mentor since my childhood. I took your post personal and for the fact Buddy is not here to defend or comment on anything. You are free to say whatever you wish.
I however, won’t comment any further.

Hi Tommy, thanks for that and I appreciate your candour. The original post was obviously provocative and even perhaps a little unforgiving (although great artists also partly live on through people thinking seriously about them). However, I hope it did also provide some food for thought regarding the wider nature of Emmons' legacy and the vast effect of his genius upon pedal steel culture in general. It's been a hell of a thread...

tim, if you go back and reread all the posts (which is exhausting) you'll find that, from an academic point of view, you've shot your argument to pieces a couple of times with statements and defences that are inconsistent with the original hypothesis. i'd link 'em all but i can't bring myself to spend any more time on this; i gotta practice!

also, if you're going to post inflammatory hypotheses about an acknowledged master, and then another acknowledged master calls you out on it, i don't think you're owed an apology. if you're smart enough to write out your whole theory, you're smart enough to know that some folks are gonna be offended. if you get the freedom to say what you want even if some find it offensive, you have to grant others the same freedom.

now i'm going to go reread the 'favourite emmons' post and actually learn something that is proven to be true!

My goodness, Tim. You get a public apology from an absolute living legend, he graciously edits his original post to reflect a re-think. You acknowledge it, but leave his quote in one of your previous replies. An oversight maybe...but my guess it’s just more fodder for your “provocative conversation.” You stir this pot and then become indignant when you get your butt handed to you. Shame on you, sir. As boring as tuning threads, et.al. I much prefer them to ones that seek to minimalize our heroes for sake of tantalizing conversation.

b0b wrote:I've edited out the quotes of Tommy's original remarks as he has retracted them and apologized for his attack on Tim.

This I don't get, why would I go back and edit one of my replies? The record is the record and really players shouldn't be going back and re-editing their entries after multiple replies- it sows confusion and muddies the contents of the most significant resource for documenting the history and culture of the pedal steel.

I didn't have my butt handed to me at all, he made a personal remark and I asked for an apology, which he gave as a decent person, legend or otherwise.

Argument-wise, I wasn't advancing a definitive thesis, more posing points for conjecture, something I made very clear at the outset. Good grief.

Tommy, You owe no one an apology for your original post. I agree 100%.To ask if "Buddy Emmons ruined pedal steel" after Buddy has passed is both ridiculous and disrespectful. If it weren't for the likes of Buddy Emmons pedal steel wouldn't be any where near where it is today.

Ken, this is disrespectful, because you are telling Tommy what to think. Tommy apologised very graciously because of what he said about the OP, not because Emmons is great. As kind and gentle people, I personally think we should let it go and move on to discussing something (or not).

Everyone thinks Emmons is great, I do, you do, we all do. That is not and never has been in question.

The original post was largely about the way his legacy has been absorbed by the wider culture. It's actually a very respectful thing to searchingly question an artist's contribution, whether it is ridiculous is neither here nor there.

Here's a question, do you think the prominence of pedal steel as principally a 'sideman' instrument has been good or bad for it in the long run?

Tim, I think the title of this thread is disrespectful and inflammatory. In my first reply, I stated "I completely disagree on all counts, and I really dislike the hyperbolic way you have posed this." I was being polite.

I personally think prefacing what is intended to be a serious discussion with a hyperbolic and inflammatory thesis/hypothesis is out of bounds in serious intellectual discourse. You say it wasn't a thesis, but I believe you in fact did put this question forward as a thesis/hypothesis to discuss. You did expand on what you meant, but the title and some of your sub-points, IMO and the opinion of many others, are hyperbolic, inflammatory, completely absurd, and disrespectful to Buddy.

If you want to discuss the impact of the highly technical pedal steel culture on the advancement of the instrument in the greater musical world, why don't you just state that? FWIW, that is NOT a new topic on this forum. That question really has very little to do with Buddy - no one person sets a culture.

You may note that I wrote this on page 5:

... So to me, the idea that Buddy Emmons or anybody else "ruined" anything about pedal steel guitar is a pile of BS. ...

I wrote a lot more to justify this statement, but without going so far as to make comments about you personally, I basically agree with what Tommy wrote. Yes, I'm parsing this more precisely, but it seems to me that you're completely missing the point of the criticism of what you've been saying here.

For those of you who argue that this kind of discussion does no damage - I disagree. It is yet one more ridiculous discussion that drives many serious players to distance themselves even further from this forum. IMO, this is something that has been happening for a while now and is not a good thing.

When I first saw this ridiculous topic I thought it wouldn't receive even one response. I see it has now grown to 7 pgs. and still going. Unbelievable. I guess we've run out of worthwhile subjects to discuss here.

Tim must not be aware of the resume or entire body of work that Mister Emmons has rendered over the years. I know of no one that was more innovative with music style or instrument and related electronic experimentation.

I was glad to see someone with the clout of Tommy White reply to put this topic where it belongs. It was a strong statement, for sure, but one which I felt was needed. I see no need for any apology, but when I read it I felt TW might re-visit his post simply because he's such a respectful person.

Maybe you could show us some of the ways you have effected positive change and modern innovation to pedal steel on a professional level Tim....but I won't hold my breath.

Here's another example of Mr. Sheinman's talent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcJdM1rl5s

I've edited out Tommy White's remarks as he has retracted them, and closed the topic at the original poster's (Tim Sheinman's) request. I've also deleted a few short, unhelpful replies on this final page.

This topic has generated some interesting and thoughtful replies, but it has also touched a nerve and generated negative, knee-jerk responses. Few would dispute that Buddy Emmons was the most influential player in the development of the pedal steel and in the art of playing it.

The title of the topic was inflammatory in my opinion (some called it "click-bait"), which I think was a big part of the problem here. Many of the short, angry replies couldn't get past that provocative question.

I invite a postmortem "discussion of the discussion" in the Forum Feedback section if you have any constructive thoughts about how this topic progressed.

Lastly, I'd like to repeat a user's mantra from the days of computer Bulletin Board Systems, the model on which this forum is based:
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Attack the issue, not the person.
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