UNIVERSAL E9-B6-Bb6 B6/E9

[Rex Myers]

I'm in

[Joe McHam]

Universal players chat.
http://cid-00095afe4b9ee78a.groups.live.com/

[Clete Ritta]

Im in too!
I play a Fessenden U12 E9/B6.



Clete

[Mark Dershaw]

judging by the number of responses to this thread, I would say there is plenty of interest. I know I would enjoy it immensely as I am new to the Uni world. I've had my Kline for about 6 months now.

[Christopher Woitach]

Oh yeah - I'm very interested

MSA Classic 12, 6x5

[Ken Metcalf]

This is my new sweet thing. S-12 Universal Push pull! SWWEEEETT !!
I like the vert change on 1,2, and 7 but am trying to figure out what I want to do with the LKR.
My Carter LKR folds up out of the way and has the string 1,2 change on it so I don't really use it.
<b>EMMONS U-12</b>

[Olie Eshleman]

I just received my Brand new Williams 700 series U12. I had it set it up 8 and 5 with a lever lock. Having played a S10 E9 for 5 years or so before that, and never C6, my pedals 4 through 8 are a mystery to me. I can get good sounds playing by myself, but if my band is playing a 1-4-5 in G, I have no idea even where to start when trying to use B6 pedals.

One possibly stupid question, the open C6 (or B6 in this case) do you use it as a I chord with the 6th (B6)? or as a minor VI with the minor 7th (G#m7)? or both\? I added standard pedals for the most part, but can't find easy I>IV or I>V moves with these.

All this aside, I love the low end and don't miss the D string at all.

[Ken Metcalf]

Olie
On B6th, with Es lowered, an E chord is at the 5th fret or back 2 frets from the A&B pedals down position.
If you look at my copedant the 6th pedal lowers E-Eb to D on the 8th string, This will give you a 4 chord.
Pedal 5 will give you a 7th chord back two frets or a II,7th on the existing fret.
The I and VI minor are different grips on the same fret.
When you are fooling around, try going up 3 frets with different pedal combination's for passing chords.
Back one fret maybe now and then.
Start with your foot on pedals 5-6, like we do with A&B.
Get it solid and comfortable, then practice moving to other pedals with out looking.
Don't forget to use the E9th pedals with B6th.
Like hit that A pedal now and then.
B pedal gives a 7th chord.
Hit that bottom string with the boo wa pedal, mine is pedal 4 and with your foot on pedals 4-5 (My Copedant) go back and forth with the bottom string rocking pedal 4 to pedal 5 for 1-4 chord funky style!
Try to grip or hit 4 strings at a time some how.
I myself have switched to using 3 finger picks.
Good Luck.

[Pete Burak]

I just received my Brand new Williams 700 series U12. I had it set it up 8 and 5 with a lever lock. Having played a S10 E9 for 5 years or so before that, and never C6, my pedals 4 through 8 are a mystery to me. I can get good sounds playing by myself, but if my band is playing a 1-4-5 in G, I have no idea even where to start when trying to use B6 pedals.

One possibly stupid question, the open C6 (or B6 in this case) do you use it as a I chord with the 6th (B6)? or as a minor VI with the minor 7th (G#m7)? or both\? I added standard pedals for the most part, but can't find easy I>IV or I>V moves with these.

All this aside, I love the low end and don't miss the D string at all.

Olie, I would love to see some pics of your Williams U12 Lever Lock.
I have not seen one yet.

Hey if you come down to the Portland Oregon Steel Jam on April 18th (see Events and Announcements for details) I could give you the once over on your U12 B6 pedals (I'm a long time U12 player and love B6th for swing).
Shoot me a PM anytime if I can be of help.
Pete B.

[Olie Eshleman]

Thanks Ken! Just the kind of help I was looking for, I will give all this a try. I have the same 5 pedal as you but have the Boo Wa on pedal 8. But I have pedal 6 dropping string 8 a whole step, rather than a 1/2 step as you do, maybe this is part of the problem? Also my pedal 7 is the same as yours but with a whole step raise on string 10, giving me 2 A# notes, also possibly a problem?

I kept my levers the same as I had them on my E9 guitar

LKL raises E's, LKR lowers them, LKV drops B's a half, RKL lowers G's a half, and RKR lowers D# to D and raises the B on string 9 to D.

That full step drop on string 2 you have on the Carters RKL is interesting....

[Olie Eshleman]

Thanks pete! Definitely gonna try to make to the portland steel jam! Not too many folks to talk shop with here, and no one playing a U12 that I have met.

My Williams is a Beauty for sure! Bill Rudolph says its the first Blue/Brown Laquered steel he's made and he liked its look a lot.

I only have a terrible cell phone camera, so I don't have pics yet, but I will figure how to get some posted.

Bill Rudolph is a Master Builder in every sense of the term.

[Ken Metcalf]

Olie,
The B6th pedals... 4 on up, are used with the lever lock or with Es lowered, either way is fine.
If you are starting with the 8th String at Eb....not E.... then it goes to D from there... comprendo.
The 4th string E lowered to Eb comes back to E With the 6th pedal activated. Seems Strange huh.
It helps if you can send or post your copedant.
There may be a difference between lowering Es and the Lever lock. check the 2nd string.
Post your copedant on here or I can help you if you know the basics of a photo editor like Paint.net which is free.
There are several ways to do this post your copedant thing

[Clete Ritta]

...Start with your foot on pedals 5-6, like we do with A&B.
...I myself have switched to using 3 finger picks.

Ken,
Thanks for all your tips!
I just got a D10, so I'm starting to learn standard C6. I was inspired to get one after getting my feet wet on E9/B6 U12.

I have my LKR similar to your RKR on the Emmons, except lowering 8 to D, instead of raising 9 as you have. How do you get the D on 2 and 9 on your Carter? I noticed you dont have a RKR.

I don't have P6 on my U12 8X5. I'm thinking of adding a P9 and putting P6 on my P8, and moving my P8 (standard P7 pulling 5 and 6 up a whole tone) to P9. This way I'll have that AB thing in B6 too, though on P7 and P8. I lower E's and 2 to C# on RKL, so all the B6 pedals are easy to reach. What do you think?

I am also trying three picks out!
With those extra strings, there's more opportunity for wider 4-note grips.

Clete

[Ken Metcalf]

Clete,
I guess I chopped off my copedant chart and yes I have a RKR Oops. It's fixed now in the above post.
The Pedal 6 is one I maybe use the most, you should try it on there.
Up 7 frets add pedal 6 gives you some kind of a 7th chord depending what grip and then back down 7 frets slide into the root chord and that should be an authentic sounding traditional 6th lick.
Pedal 6, makes a 1-4 change and the Boo wa pedal on 4 works good to have a rocking foot position at pedals 4-5 that is also a 1-4 change with the low string B. Practice moving your feet positions with out looking and it will get easier.
Also practice with your foot off the vol. pedal, because pretty soon you'll be using both feet on those B6th pedals.

I should add that anytime I am referring to the B6th pedals, I am assuming you have the Es lowered.

[Michael Strauss]

TTT for this great thread.

[Mark van Allen]

Great thread indeed. Anybody who has a spare nice U12, I'm trying to find my way into one... give me a shout!

[Clete Ritta]

Thanks for reviving this thread. Its reminding me of where I was heading with the Universal tuning over 3 years ago now.

Since this thread quieted down I had gone and converted my Fessenden to an Extended E9. Why? I dont know! Curiosity got the best of me! I may have been influenced by Mickey Adams, who just seemed to be having too much fun playing his new Ext. E9 (as I imagine he does playing any guitar actually hah). Well, at some point along the way I ran into a few mechanical glitches with it. I ended up putting it and E9 on the back burner for a little while, as I had just got my first D10 in 2010. I delved from learning the U12 B6 to the D10 C6. I've a lonnnnng way to go, but just fortunate to have time to get there, and Mickey is leaning heavily into the C6 neck too with Buck Reid, which is inspiring to me as a perpetual student.

Fairly recently I managed to persuade him to put my guitar back together to its original 8X5 E9/B6 Universal tuning again. I had not played it in a few years, plus he had been in the process of moving, so it was not an urgent deal at all. I know he's been setting it up right along though, and even got some new parts for it. I am anxious and excited to return to the Universal tuning again! These posts bring me right back where I left off.

[Jimmy Gibson]

Here`s mine wonder how many of the new steels made today will still be as good as these old MSA `s when they reach 0ver 30 years old.
This old girl still looks great plays as good as the day it was made and sounds absolutely superb ..



Jimmy

[Jim Pitman]

Jimmy, I started on one of those in 1984 (i think). Mine was one, of if not the last, MSA's of that vintage made. It was mechanically superior I recall. I wound up thinking I didn't like the tone and sold it to buy something else. I don't think I'd have that opinion today. You know how we all are seeking some holy grail steel guiutar (that doesn't exist)
It took MSA a year to get the guitar to me after I ordered it. MSA was in trouble with a few folks for similar stories back then. You have to give credit to the late Maurice Anderson though for the development of the concept. It was one of the first guitars made with triple raise and triple lower which was enabling for E9/B6.
So I guess the subject of this thread never got off the ground.
Was the intention to have it another forum index choice or a seperate site?

[Steven Cummings]

Wow.... Just realized the original post was way back years ago. any possibility of this happening or is it an idea that fizzled out???

[Steven Cummings]

Rank beginner here with an MSA 8&5. I had high hopes that Reece would share it with me at some point but time ran out. Shucks! Maybe I'll get to have a shot at it a one of these days.

Let me know if anything ever comes of this ya'll....

[Andy DePaule]

This old hippie seemed to prefer the Universal tuning.
E=mc2 = Universal Tuning?
I think b0b is the responsible fellow for this one, but not sure???

[Sandro Rocco]

I play an MSA E9/B6 7 and 5. I'm in!!

[Niels Andrews]

So, this never went anywhere?

[James Flaherty]

I'm in. I play a Dekley 7+4 12 string universal