Our Instrument / Scrap Heap of the Uncool

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 28 Dec 2005 7:57 pm

John,
Thanks for the tip. I'll back channel Mike and see where and when he plays.

Roger,
Gatlin Brothers. Now there's some harmony. Offhand i can't think of better harmony.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 28 Dec 2005 7:57 pm

Preserving tradition is one thing, but dismissing a guy because he doesn't do all the "compulsories" on an instrument is something else. By "compulsories" think of the winter Olympics and how the figure skaters have historically had to execute certain standarized moves to perfection in order to graduate to the next level in the competition and have a chance at earning a medal. Randolph doesn't play the "compulsories" very often on the instrument-but if anyone says that he never uses the pedals-then you haven't really given the guy a full listen.

I wrote a few posts ago about Randolph playing on a track on the new Santana. He really does do a great job on this song. It has nothing to do with country music. This has been the problem all along. In spite of the cd sales of the mainstream pseudo-country singers like Chesney and McGraw, there are still plenty of people in this nation who flat don't like country music, no matter how masterful Buddy Emmons or Hal Rugg or Lloyd Green sounds on a recording.

It is one of the only instruments in the world, that if someone knows what it is, but doesn't play it or spend any time thinking about it-brings to mind a certain image.

The violin does not have this problem-it can be used in the most complex Mozart piece-then can be handed to someone who can get a boozed up crowd all pumped up with "Orange Blossom Special," whereupon it becomes a "fiddle."

The piano can be used for a Chopin composition, and then can have the crap banged out of it by Little Richard on "Good Golly Miss Molly." Nobody even questions this.

Reece Anderson plays legitimate jazz on the pedal steel, as does Rob Ickes on the dobro (listen to his 2001 release "What It Is") yet no one outside of folks like us who play the things and admire the great players thereof have any real idea that these things are used outside of country or bluegrass.

I think the idea of Nashville cornering the market on pedal steel usage after "Slowly" came out in the 50's dug a hole for the thing that steelers are still trying to crawl out of.

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Mark

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 28 Dec 2005 8:17 pm

Thanks for a great post Mark,- it's probably only bagpipes and banjos that's equally stereotyped as the steel guitar..

I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again; As long as PSG players consider it a musical style and not a musical instrument capable of many different things, its place in music history 50 years from now will take as much space as the didgeridoo. It must be allowed to evolve and stretch or it will die.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 28 December 2005 at 08:31 PM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 28 Dec 2005 10:26 pm

I had an aspiring young jazz bassist over to my house tonight for a theory lesson. He spied the pedal steel in the corner of the room and asked:
"Isn't that what Robert Randolph plays ?"

-John

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 28 Dec 2005 10:40 pm

Mr. Sliff,
I got WAAAAYY ahead of myself on that one (I do that sometimes) - sorry - my mistake all the way. And thanks - you're right; for anyone to sneer at Robert R. in this would show that they probably missed the point.

Okay, now you guys want to know the truth? Why steel players don't get the glory and recognition of coolness?

When the youngins see a guitar player dancing around, pulling faces, caressing the guitar, almost like he's having a cliff-hanger fight with someone, it looks glorious and cool. When they see a steel player, sitting there, concentrated, looking like he's hardly doing anything at all up top, it looks boring and uncool. What did I say earlier about image? Now you know..

If that weren't enough, what percentage of the population had tried a pedal steel, and what percentage has at least tried a guitar? The vast majority of people can't even relate to what the steel player is doing.

When was the last time you saw a kid doing "air steel"?

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 28 Dec 2005 10:52 pm

Ah, yes, I remember Kenny Rogers' first (not so country) hit - "I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in" - what could possibly be uncool about that?!!

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 29 Dec 2005 2:39 am

"I think the idea of Nashville cornering the market on pedal steel usage after "Slowly" came out in the 50's dug a hole for the thing that steelers are still trying to crawl out of. "

I think its a hole that some of these guys are trying to crawl back into. Just my opinion.

Rick[This message was edited by Rick Garrett on 29 December 2005 at 02:40 AM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 29 Dec 2005 3:25 am

When was the last time you saw a kid doing "air steel"?

Folks, it's just a matter of time. Say this mantra to yourself, slowly:

The steel guitar is cool.
The steel guitar is cool.
The steel guitar is cool...

Now, go out and evangelize.

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 29 Dec 2005 3:57 am

When they see a steel player, sitting there, concentrated, looking like he's hardly doing anything at all up top, it looks boring and uncool.

....Which actually is my explanation for my tendency to wear the loudest shirt on stage

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 29 Dec 2005 6:32 am

RR don't play country.
So what,
why should he,
it isn't part of HIS tradition.

He does his thing and he is doing it well and with big success,
and getting worldwide acknowlegment in the process.

So what if he isn't doing Buddy's licks behind Ray,
or or Doug Jernigan's version of Anthropology,
it isn't his gig,
and he need not even care about it.

But he does like the same steelers we do,
even if HE doesn't copy them at all.

So at the moment he doesn't use the pedals
as much as some do,
or uses a distorted sound ; nothing new really.
Several of our steeler idols did this with worse sounding fuzz's
before RR was even born.
At the time some HATED, HATED, HATED that,
even when it was Big E. ( grunt, 'tain't country)
Others said cool, wow, he's a nut but I like it.

So this reviewer is steel pinhead... most people are...

RR isn't, and is plumbing the niche he has created,
and getting well known enought to be
the VICTIM of hybole from psycophants in the press.
And SOME of those from other traditions of the steel,
who don't accept change or differentiation well.

Are we really beating a dead horse with a buggy whip ;
which has gone the way of all things...
into the dustbin of history?
Yep.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 December 2005 at 06:34 AM.]

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 29 Dec 2005 7:25 am

When they see a steel player, sitting there, concentrated, looking like he's hardly doing anything at all up top, it looks boring and uncool.

If the music moves you then MOVE with it!!!

RR certainly does not just sit there.

Problem is we are a diverse group on this forum and country music is not the only music being played. It is hard to get excited and move with country music. Rock and blues is another matter. When you play that kind of music it FEELS different and you therefore act different. You sometimes even look cool!!

I find myself jumpin' in my seat when I play some uptempo swing tunes! My teenage daughter think I'm an embarrasment and very UNCOOL!!

Terry

Gaylon Mathews · Post by **Gaylon Mathews** » 29 Dec 2005 8:03 am

Off topic again but this looks like a good place to say that I really enjoy ALL music that includes a steel guitar. I've always been facinated with the instrument and those that can actually play the darn thing. My heart is deep into country music, but, I really like to watch and hear Robert Randolph and others when they venture outside the so called "norm" of the instrument. I just wish I could do that. Take for instance Mike Perlowin's music. You wouldn't catch me listening to that kind of music for more than 5 minutes tops until Mike gave me a copy of his album and I saw how cool it was done on steel. Jazz is another example of stuff I probably would get bored with soon if it weren't for Doug Jernigan and Buddy Emmons playing Jazz on steel. To each his own. Some folks don't like it one little bit when steel players stray from hard core country. Like I said before, that's exactly where my heart is but if I were not willing to like and learn to play other things I believe I would've been sitting at home for the past 20 years wishing for a gig instead of out doing what I love. Just something I wanted to get off my chest......So There!

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Gaylon's Homepage
www.gaylonmathews.com

Gretchen Wilson
www.gretchenwilson.com

GFI Ultra D-10, Fender Steel King, GHS Strings, SteelSeat.com

[This message was edited by Gaylon Mathews on 29 December 2005 at 08:10 AM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 29 Dec 2005 8:27 am

Duane - "Air Steel" just caused an entire mouthful of coffee to be spewed onto my computer screen!

lmao....

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 29 Dec 2005 9:00 am

What is Hip?

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 29 Dec 2005 10:02 am

Bump-debump-debump!

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 29 Dec 2005 10:15 am

Here I go, Sticking my nose where it don't belong. I'm going to step out on a limb, and say: Any of the top ten Steel Players that WE know from the forum (Who ever they may be) could in an hour play most of the stuff R R plays, but in two years I don't think he (RR)could play a tenth of what those same ten Steel Players can. This is not to say that I disrespect Robert, or his choice of the use of the Pedal Steel Guitar, just that the smoothness, and beauty of TONE, and TOUCH of a Pedal Steel Guitar can not be learned quickly. I think we all have to realize that the "Writer?" of the article has stirred up a lot of controvercy (sp?), and that is not always a bad thing. I'll bet some guys get so Pi**ed off, they start "Woodsheding" like crazy just to ex-spell some energy.

Side note: When I was very young, an older player looked at my Telecaster, and said,"In the old days we wouldn't hire a guy that would play one of them things." ..Nearly Forty years later, the TELECASTER is very COOL. It took Don Rich, James Burton, Roy Nichols, and other players like Roy Bucanon, and even Huey Lewis, and Bruce Springsteen to bring some of the fame the Telecaster now enjoys. I don't think anyone is having a hard time with the fact that R. R. plays P.S.G. just a problem with the ignorance of the author of the article.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 29 Dec 2005 10:19 am

theres a song called Lunatic Fringe by a aband named Red Ryder that was a radio hit in the early 80's. I used to air guitar ton that solo, i8t was one of the most incredible guitar solos my young ears had heard. Then I see the video on MTV and the guy is playing a steel guitar!! So i guess what im saying is...yeah I used to "air steel".

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 29 Dec 2005 10:21 am

###[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 29 December 2005 at 10:48 AM.]

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 29 Dec 2005 1:24 pm

Then I see the video on MTV and the guy is playing a steel guitar!! So i guess what im saying is...yeah I used to "air steel".

That was Ken Greer, AFAIK he's now playing with these guys.

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“I always knew that there was something out there that I needed to get to.
And it wasn't where I was at that particular moment."
-Bob Dylan

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 29 Dec 2005 1:29 pm

okay, before i say anything, i will preface this by saying that i love the steel guitar and don't mean any offense to anyone, but i want to point something out. i think it is funny that one guy, who probably wrote the article with little thought about who he might offend, who was also exercising his right to free speech, can get a bunch of dudes he has never met all riled up. i think he missed the mark, yes, but to get all twisted out of shape about it is another. i think he may have hit upon a weak spot in our community, i mean after all, if someone says something about you that isn't true, then it doesn't hurt, right? or get you upset... opinions are like @$$holes, everyone's got one, this guy included.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 29 Dec 2005 1:32 pm

Chuck, those are my sentiments exactly. Its takes light years more talent to play multi stringed harmonic passages then it does to play fast distorted single note pentatonics on the steel. There's no comparison. The dynamics and touch alone are much harder.

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 29 Dec 2005 7:06 pm

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Steinar Gregertsen wrote:
Marlin, sounds to me like you're implying that RR doesn't know how to play the steel guitar and needs to hide behind his fuzz and other stomp boxes......
Jim Sliff wrote;
You'd have to be willing to listen to things you don't like to hear the proof, though - so I get the feeling it'll likely never happen.
This is where things get into trouble. Personally, I don't like country music as a whole but I would never put down Country players as unskilled because I don't like their style.
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As a rule, I don?t call people out on the forum but you both are so incredibility wrong and clearly painfully not able to understand my post as you both missed my point so I?ll uselessly explain to you once again in place of you misconstruing me on the forum with your babbling psychoanalyzing and inappropriate condescending tone .
Gregertsen:
I never said RR doesn?t know how to play the steel guitar What I said was RR is a guy who plays a steel. That?s hardly knocking the guy. The reference to the fiddle was directed towards the journalist who was knocking the steel as we know it. I didn?t know RR used stomp boxes, but if he does?cool.
Sliff:
Interesting you use the forum to slam me personally by writing:

I need to listen to things I don?t like-but get the feeling it?ll likely never happen.

Considering we have never met, considering you also admit you don?t like country music as a whole? I can?t even take you seriously. I never put RR down in my post. The reference with the fiddle was directed towards the journalist.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 29 Dec 2005 7:12 pm

Its takes light years more talent to play multi stringed harmonic passages then it does to play fast distorted single note pentatonics on the steel.

That's like saying all that single note pentatonic stuff Jimi Hendrix played on only six strings could be done by anybody????!!!!!

Playing blues notes is not the same as playing the blues.

Terry

[This message was edited by Terry Edwards on 29 December 2005 at 07:17 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 29 Dec 2005 7:43 pm

Oh, nevermind........

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 29 December 2005 at 07:47 PM.][This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 29 December 2005 at 08:12 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 29 Dec 2005 7:58 pm

Smoot: " don't consider him a steel player just because he sits behind a steel guitar. Guys like Paul Franklin, Buddy Emmons etc... and a lot of us, play steel guitar."

You say it all yourself, unless you just don't make yourself clear. You're insulting the guy's talents and considering him to be a lower musical lifeform than "Guys like Paul Franklin and Buddy Emmons".

Ergo - you don't like his style or his playing. Am I wrong? But realize this - what you like doesn't make it "worse (or better) than any other style - just different.

Get a grip.