All beginners and students please read this.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 5 Nov 2005 9:43 pm

No, didn't miss the B-Bender thing, and I'm with you on the watered-down Eagles and 70s rock. Mike Bloomfield has always been one of my strongest influences - seeing him with the Electric Flag in Boston is what convinced me I had to take up the guitar, and I probably spent too much time the next 20 years trying to sound like him, Albert King, T-Bone Walker, and Roy B.

I guess there's no accounting for differences in taste, eh? I think you're right - there's an east coast - west coast thing. Big difference between the west coast "smooth B-Bender school" and the east coast "searing no-frills school". I love 'em both. I still consider myself a guitar player first, although that's gradually changing.

I know people who think Danny's tone was shrill, but my jaw drops when someone tells me his chops were overly repetitive. He certainly had a unique style with lots of his own cliches, but he was ferocious technically and broke out of that all the time. Roy is simply the standard bearer for the east-coast Tele school, IMO.

Anyway, if you don't like Roy and Danny, I guess I understand why you might not like some of the more crying east-coast style country steel guitar. All I can say is, I guess it's an acquired taste. Carry on and good luck.

Sidney Ralph Penton · Post by **Sidney Ralph Penton** » 5 Nov 2005 9:59 pm

good greef the first post in here who ever it was is saying when you buy material get it new for it is the only means of support from fran etc. ok now if we just keep selling used material then say noone sells new material any more. at some point in time the used material is not going to be around for one reason or another and one can't purchase new material because no one makes it. this country was founded on helping one another. i keep all of my instructional material because i like to refer or review the material from time to time. as far as psg goes there are new players every day and they are usually getting a used psg instead of a new one probably mainly due to cost of a new one. nothing wrong with this because more people are going to start palying the psg all the time. others want a different psg and order one sell the old one. the bottom line is jeff newman was a great player and a great teacher so why not keep him alive in our music but purchasing items from fran and giving her a little bit of a helping hand. if you purchase some material new and pay $20.00 for it what you going to do sell it for $10. come on now do you really need the money that bad? just my opion. doc.

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zum SD10 peavy vegas 400 peavy session 400 steelseats they are great at sales@steelseats.com
if its not a zum steel it isn't real
just trying to steel for the Lord>

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Nov 2005 10:15 pm

No topic drift, it was a sea change...

playing stuff you don't like just for the learning experience isn't exactly "art" - it's "business".

Well if getting your technical expirence from material you don't favor is bad,
then we are ALL bad.

I don't play Row Row Row Your Boat at any gig,
But learning it was usefull because I learned a positional thing I can take a apart and use differently.

Bottom line we learn in MANY different ways.
IF you can aford it buy "fresh TAB"
and support the people providing it, great!

If not, borrow or buy used, (typical for debutants)
and eventually you will likely buy something new.

Someone who isn't learning now isn't buying later...

Getting the ball rolling is the main thing, and supporting the teachers is laudable too.

Typical scenario :
new picker buys used steel, gets local teacher or steeler friend,
is lent some learning materials,
gets a bit of proficiency AND knowlege of what he is
looking for in TAB and learning materials.
Then goes an buys new ones, after asking or seeing on the forum.

I bet a whole pile of people who bought Mike's great book of theory for Steel,
got to the point of wanting to buy it,
from some borrowed and used TAB, PLUS some new stuff.
It got them moving and served that purpose.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 November 2005 at 10:18 PM.]

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Nov 2005 8:04 am

I don't play Row Row Row Your Boat at any gig, But learning it was usefull because I learned a positional thing I can take a apart and use differently.

Let's say you had two students of equal learning ability, both of whom wanted to learn to play "Purple Haze" on the pedal steel. Like most people, they had limited time available to approach every single aspect of the instrument. For the first student, you showed him how to play it, and sent him home for a week with the record to practice. For the second student, you first showed him how to play "Red River Valley" on non-pedal 6-string steel, if there was any time left you showed him "Purple Haze", then sent him to practice both with the understanding that he had to learn "Red River Valley" in order to play "Purple Haze" properly. Which student is going to be able to play what he wants to play better at the end of the week? Which student is going to have more fun?

Now, let's say both students come back the next week (unlikely, in my estimation

) and want to learn the Chaconne from the 2nd Partita for solo violin by J.S. Bach. (Yo, Doug!) This time, you put your foot down and insist that they learn "Mary Had a Little Lamb" as a precursor, because you had to learn it, and now you "know theory." Is it possible that the students might derive some theory, also, from studying Bach? I think so.[This message was edited by David Mason on 06 November 2005 at 08:09 AM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Nov 2005 8:18 am

I actually bought Mike's book cold, never having heard of it. then I got the steel "addendum", and even though it doesn't apply directly to my guitar (8 string, B6) I can adapt and transfer some things - it's aslow process, but it's my only way right now.

Another sidebar - In Mike's book, hee talks about *one* pentatonic scale. guitar books talk about *two* - the major one ("country "box") and minor one ("blues "box"), plus the blues scale, which is the minor pentatonic with a couple added notes. I'm trying to figure out why the major pentatonic - the intermediate Tele player's "home" - isn't mentioned at all, unless I missed it.

And Sidney - Jeff's primary course is a hundred bucks, not 20. And yes, I DO need to carefully consider buying something for $100. Maybe you're independantly wealthy and use burning fifties to light cigars, but I don't have those kinds of resources. The number of "steel courses" out there is overwhelmng to a beginner, and it'd bee easy to spend $1000 annd not find what you're looking for.

I can't afford that.

And Jeffran doesn't take Paypal, either. If they did, I'd probably have bought it by now regardless, based on recommendations. As it is, I have to lurk for someone to advertise a used copy, or offer to sell me one, via Paypal.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 6 Nov 2005 8:21 am

I don't know how this topic change from a good discussion of intellectual properties and the sale of used instructional materials to defensive sparring on what music anybody else plays, their justification for it, and whether or not somebody agrees.

Me, I never had a studio session I wasn't thrilled to do. When was it a question of whether I or somebody else liked the music? It's about adding to the music, making it better, giving it life, and growing through the experience.

I think I'm going to sell all my instructional materials and start ignoring what anybody else says; start looking for people that I'm better than; and just laugh at everybody else.

Post by **b0b** » 6 Nov 2005 9:24 am

Mike asked me to close this topic. It's his right. It's closed.

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