Singers vs. Steelers

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 May 2006 10:37 am

I'm just saying that great singers are a dime a dozen. I've heard enough of them. I wouldn't walk across the street to hear another one.

Great steel players, on the other hand, are rare. I never get tired of listening to great steel players. It's a unique talent.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Curtis Alford · Post by **Curtis Alford** » 12 May 2006 10:42 am

I have been a front person for many years, I have always used steel guitar and fiddle when they were available. I have gone out of my way to support the steel player before I started learning the instrument and still do.
A few of the steelers were the type I could have done without and the song have sounded better. But I did not choose to put down all steelers. I do feel the statement that no singer is needed only steel instrumentals, is slap to the people who are employing 99% of every steeler that plays away from his house.This line of thought will only lead to fewer arist using a steeler because they will feel he does think I'm important to this project be it stage or recording.
Just MHO

Curtis Alford · Post by **Curtis Alford** » 12 May 2006 10:44 am

I have been a front person for many years, I have always used steel guitar and fiddle when they were available. I have gone out of my way to support the steel player before I started learning the instrument and still do.
A few of the steelers were the type I could have done without and the song have sounded better. But I did not choose to put down all steelers. I do feel the statement that no singer is needed only steel instrumentals, is slap to the people who are employing 99% of every steeler that plays away from his house.This line of thought will only lead to fewer arist using a steeler because they will feel he does think I'm important to this project be it stage or recording.
Just MHO

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 12 May 2006 11:41 am

"Great steel players, on the other hand, are rare. I never get tired of listening to great steel players. It's a unique talent."

I'm with you Bobby, a 100% on this particular point.

But I would bet the farm that there are plenty of people, even some that are musically inclined, that would get tired of hearing great steelers in a fairly short amount of time.

So I think this one of those topics that doesn't have a conclusion that is "right" or "wrong."

It's just the old "different strokes for different folks."

At the church band practice last night, this week's leader, before turning in the "set list" to the secretary was thinking about cutting a song for Sunday that has a relatively long instrumental break, and I'm playing dobro on it while our very talented lead guitarist gets to step out and go for it. Not to show off, after all this is contemporary church service music - but to really add to the song and get the congregation into sort of the "close your eyes moment" and think about whatever one thinks about during those times.

This week's designated leader was thinking of cutting the song if we had selected too many, and myself and the lead player talked him out of it.

The guy we talked out of it would be considered a "strummer," or one who plays straight rhythm on a six string acoustic, and often he will modify a song when it is his turn to lead to exclude an instrumental break.

Some people like music just fine, but the idea of great pickin' is just lost on them.

I wouldn't ask him to name great steelers- that would be futile - but this fellow is about 35, and I doubt if he could even name 5 great rock guitarists from the history of the music - it just doesn't interest him. His acoustic playing is a vehicle for getting the words across.

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 12 May 2006 at 12:56 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 May 2006 3:27 pm

I don't mean to be putting down great singers. I'm just saying that there are really a lot of them. There are probably more great singers in the world than there are steel guitarists, total.

I have well over 100 great instrumental steel guitar CDs by world class players. There are probably over 100 new vocal CDs added to Amazon.com every day! It's wonderful that so many people can sing, but is it a crime to prefer instrumental music? I state my preference and people are yelling "Get a rope!".

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 14 May 2006 5:13 am

It's wonderful that so many people can sing, but is it a crime to prefer instrumental music? I state my preference and people are yelling "Get a rope!".

If we hung you, who would we have to argue with?

My favorite albums currently are solo steel guitar discs. I love how a pedal steel can sing. I like it when it is done straight, like Astrid Gilberto (but with better pitch). I enjoy singing because the resonation begins in the body; it feels good.
Vocal singing is so much more accessible for most people than singing steel. I only say that singing started it all; witness the oft-imitated wide vibrato of the vox humana.

Many can sing; few can play steel.
I would say there are about as many good singers as there are steel players.

I can play as well as I can sing. Makes sense. I only try it at home.
But doing backups with a good vocalist; nothng feels better. To me.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 May 2006 8:25 am

I'm just saying that great singers are a dime a dozen...Great steel players, on the other hand, are rare.

IMO, great practitioners of anything are rare. You are, of course, right about the relative exclusiveness of the steel guitar club. There are surely more great singers than great steel players, simply because there is a much, much larger pool of singers than steel players. But it's very unusual for me to hear a singer that really wows me. Or guitar, sax, keys, banjo (yeah, I had to say that), whatever.

I'd rather focus on finding great music and don't worry too much about the form. I'm biased to country, blues, jazz, bluegrass, rockabilly, and other roots American forms, but sometimes I hear things out of left field that just wow me. I'll definitely walk across the street to hear great music, whatever form it comes in.

Am I missing something here? When did Singers become a competition for steelers? For any musician?

Well, here I sort of agree with b0b. The focus of commercial music is all about the singer and virtually none about the music, IMO. This is about the "Star System", and "singers" run the show - often at the expense of the musicians. Pretty much anybody out there in "radioland" is able to relate to a singer - anybody with working vocal chords can sing (however badly). It's the human connection - not the musical connection - that sells stuff to most people, IMO.

Since I'm exclusively interested in music, not the Hollywood flash and glamour of the music biz, I often find all-instrumental units more interesting, musically. A great jazz combo doesn't need a singer, nor does a classical orchestra. To me, a good voice is just another instrument, and should be judged on the same terms.

IMO, singers like Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Ella Fitzgerald, Carmen McCrae, Patsy Cline, Ray Price, and many others, are worthy of unusual treatment, the way some instrumentalists are - Charlie Parker, Hank Garland, Coltrane, Emmons, and so on. However, most voices I hear are much more amorphous - fine in a band context, sharing the bill equally with the other members, but don't really stand out. Still, they are almost always the focal points of attention. I think it's this dichotomy that bothers a lot of musicians. To me, this dilutes the music, because it focuses too much attention on the figurehead, and deflects attention from the musical aspects of the show.

All IMO.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 May 2006 11:07 am

Maybe I'm just turning into an old crank.

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 14 May 2006 12:56 pm

That's the trouble with turning into a crank, everyone wants to "shaft" you

Gary Atkinson · Post by **Gary Atkinson** » 14 May 2006 3:42 pm

BoB keep cranking it out.I am a singer who learned to play lead guitar so I wouldn't have to give up my steel player.I think singers need to be woke up and realize that singing thru your nose and off key is not a good thing.They learned to sing with karoke and think they think they're great.Most of them probably could not do the songs from memory and if they do they don't know very many.So I say wake them up.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 May 2006 10:01 pm

Hearing Dolly and Alison sing a duet is worth crossing town for.

I have heard Alison live 3 times,
and worth every penny including travel costs.

The last time was at Carnagie Hall,
and she did an acapela duet with Ricky Skaggs.
No PA, just their voices. Awe inspiring.

For me it helps if a super singer is also a serious picker too.

While I love instrumental music,
I also can appreciate fine singing.
But not if that is the ONLY thing they offer as a band.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 14 May 2006 at 11:02 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 15 May 2006 4:17 am

For me it helps if a super singer is also a serious picker too.

Alison Krause is my favorite among contemporary singers.
She sings like an angel, and she sings on fiddle too.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 15 May 2006 8:49 am

Then there was Alvino Rey whose steel "sang the lyrics."

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Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 15 May 2006 10:06 am

Try this on for a comparison.

Alison Krauss & Union Station is one of my favorite groups, and forced to pick just one - Jerry Douglas is probably my favorite musician.

When you go to an AKUS concert, you see an extremely talented band, both as players and vocalists. They don't come any tighter as a group, it's like a Swiss watch. JerryD gets to do some soloing, but for the most part he is providing exqusite fill to back the vocals.

When you see the Jerry Douglas Band, which is on tour now, and will be in California this October - Jerryd really steps out and goes for it, as the band leader of an all-instrumental group (and no banjo, Bobby!).

They play a little true bluegrass, but then go everywhere from Hendrix to Weather Report.

Jerryd is also playing some lap steel on the current tour in addition to dobro.

Very different scenarios, one isn't better than the other between AKUS and the JD Band - just different.

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 15 May 2006 at 11:18 AM.]