The Steel Guitar Forum

what Alan said. Every forum has wet blankets

If you truly would like to have younger players take on the pedal steel guitar, you would be wise not to bash the style of music that younger folks like.

I've read so many posts on this forum over the years that were so negative towards other styles of music (mostly rap and rock).

I hate to say it guys, but if it's true that pedal steel isn't more popular, you might need to point the finger at so many folks who are in the steel guitar community.

It isn't because of cost. Have you seen the price of some of the keyboards, guitars,etc. that kids are willing to buy?
They're not any less expensive than some of the pedal steels that are available these days.

You'll have better luck getting kids to listen to what you'd like them to hear if you are willing to do the same for them.

Just a bit of advice. Take it or leave it.

Rick

The fact that the pedal steel guitar is by far the most difficult instrument to play of all means that by the time you've become proficient at it you're too old to play in teenaged bands.
Anyone can pick up an electric guitar. learn a few chords, and make some sort of musical sound within a week or two. With all the effects units on the market nowadays you just have to shake the instrument and it will start singing and reverberating for minutes. Before the reverberation dies down it's been added to by new notes, until you get a complete background noise of many notes ringing continually. Then you add so much distortion that the instrument sounds in pain.

Why spend a lifetime mastering pedal steel when you can get instant results with a regular electric guitar and look sexy in the process? It's very difficult to look manly and provocative sitting in one position, and, because you need to be using both legs, both knees and both arms, what do you have left to wave around in the air?

(I guess that's the same question as "What do you use to work the fifth knee lever?" )

From the perspective of a lifer pro musician who's always loved the steel, but just picked it up recently.....I see a couple issues

One is......the music that the steel is, for better or worse, mostly associated with.....older, trad C and W......is not much of a force on the charts or in the clubs these days. I think that's sad, but undeniable.

Despite that, I've been frankly SHOCKED by the negativity and outright anger from a lot of older, excellent steel players toward anything that doesn't fit the trad. country mold....or differs even slightly. Both here and on the FB pedal steel page, over and over if anyone posts something a little more modern or progressive or ::gasp:: not country, there's always a couple older cats who want to tear them down. I was stunned to see the dismissal of Robert Randolph here. There's another longtime member who posts regularly that I think is an absolute master.......and their occasionally challenging music gets met with indifference at best. Just shocking.

I've also seen (not here so much) beginners looking for encouragement get told by older guys that they suck and will never be any good. Great outreach for the steel, huh?

Around here in Philly, there's a pretty big "Alt Country" scene, with lots of sincere young players who really love the music out there gigging regularly. Very, very few have steel players. I've asked a few why not and they all say the same thing........very few younger players, and the older guys they ask to play either look down their noses or only want to show up, play the gig and get paid....with no rehearsal or learning (original) material. As a guy who's been making his living gigging for 25+ years, I get that.......but at a certain point, beggars can't be choosers.

Just my $.02.......and probably worth less.

Alan Brookes wrote:The fact that the pedal steel guitar is by far the most difficult instrument to play of all means that by the time you've become proficient at it you're too old to play in teenaged bands.
Anyone can pick up an electric guitar. learn a few chords, and make some sort of musical sound within a week or two. With all the effects units on the market nowadays you just have to shake the instrument and it will start singing and reverberating for minutes. Before the reverberation dies down it's been added to by new notes, until you get a complete background noise of many notes ringing continually. Then you add so much distortion that the instrument sounds in pain.

Why spend a lifetime mastering pedal steel when you can get instant results with a regular electric guitar and look sexy in the process? It's very difficult to look manly and provocative sitting in one position, and, because you need to be using both legs, both knees and both arms, what do you have left to wave around in the air?

(I guess that's the same question as "What do you use to work the fifth knee lever?" )

Alan,

It's true that you can learn a few chords on a guitar and start beginning to play a few easy songs.
But that's the same as just learning how to use the A-B and C pedals on the steel guitar and play some simple steel guitar too.
The pedal steel is definitely a difficult instrument to master, but so is a saxophone or a violin. Yet guys play those instruments.


Regarding the idea that simply adding a few FX to a guitar and it almost plays itself...sorry, but that's rubbish.
The fact is, that if you add an effect like distortion to an electric guitar you are adding a whole lot of gain which will not only make the notes that you want to play ring out, but it will also highlight the notes that you don't want to sound out too if you're not a skilled player.
If you don't want to sound like some sloppy hack guitarist, you will need to block just like on a steel guitar.

Also, part of being a good guitarist is knowing when to use those FX and when to leave them the heck alone.

Joaquim, don't head out. Many of us enjoy your posts and your leaving will make The Forum less informative and enjoyable.

Sometimes one must just selectively ignore what is being said by some of the members.

DON'T GO, we need your type here. stevet

Hi Tom Q, I'd love to check out your music! maybe you have a link or two I can hear?

Rick,you're under the impression that I'm a pedal steel guitarist who doesn't play other instruments, but, to me, the steel guitar is just one of many. I also play guitar, mandolin, banjo, autoharp, 12-string guitar, lute, cittern, violin, viola, Mountain Dulcimer, bouzuki, hummel, psaltery, crwth, bass, etc.,etc. You name it, I play it. I've played around with electric guitars and all those add-on units since they were invented, and am very familiar with MIDI. I still say that the modern audience is impressed by non-musicians who just use processors that the audience cannot and has no interest in understanding. Talent has given way to showmanship.

Alan Brookes wrote: I still say that the modern audience is impressed by non-musicians who just use processors that the audience cannot and has no interest in understanding. Talent has given way to showmanship.

Alan, this portion of your post strikes me as a textbook example of the phrase, "a broad sweeping generalization."

so someone is quitting this forum because of someone's posted opinion ? Did I read that right ?

Whats the point of a forum or threads , like em or not, if we can't just say whats on our mind ( without offending personally of course).

This would have been one heck of a boring conversation if we all said the exact same thing..no?

many many decades back a good playing friend up in Ct said the exact same words to me with regard to the players in the area..

"we have lots of owners but very few players ".

The more I think about it , I was was one of the owners !



Me and that guy are still friends today...40 years later.

fact of the matter is, and maybe to a low degree, maybe, just maybe some area's don't use Steel players locally because they are not up to snuff...why is that offensive ? I was fired from my first gigs, I wasn't up to snuff and they did not want me on the bandstand with them, and they were right !

Call me "superior" if you want but I have also been to rehearsals with working bands where they were looking for a Steel man, I can think of a few times where I declined the gigs. It was not going to work for me musically and be fun..I wasn't going to play Norm Hamlet licks with an Eddy Van Halen wanna be on guitar , so I declined.

so there ya have it..

Hopefully nobody will quit over that...

The snarky, condescending tone of the posts coming out of Sacramento gets very tiresome. Must be something in the water.

A view from the outside: I don't play pedal steel, but do play dobro, lap steel, blues harp & country harmonica, and dabble in blues-style guitar. I'm in a couple mediocre hobby bands from time-to-time. I am honestly amazed at how many pedal steel players there are. There are way more on this forum than I thought were alive on the entire planet. You guys are playing something, that in my opinion, is harder to play than flying the space shuttle. Your collective knowledge of theory, copedants, copedents (ahem), tunings, mechanics, electrical engineering skills, history of the instrument. . . blows.my.mind.
When I hear pedal steel on ANY song, I am drawn to it, wonder who the player is, and savor it.
The 'nashville' pop stuff out there is just: nashville pop. It's a way for talented rock musicians to make some money, cause America wants pop, be it rock pop, rap pop, punk pop, or nashville pop. America wants Hot Pockets too, but that doesn't mean they are good (or real food).

You guys are in a group discussing the lack of pedal steel, sort of like Chuck Yeager discussing the lack of test pilots. You guys have the right stuff. If it was everywhere. . . it would be Hot Pockets.
Keep up the great playing!!!!

Tony Prior wrote:so someone is quitting this forum because of someone's posted opinion ? Did I read that right ?

Whats the point of a forum or threads , like em or not, if we can't just say whats on our mind ( without offending personally of course).

This would have been one heck of a boring conversation if we all said the exact same thing..no?

+1

Alan Brookes wrote:
I still say that the modern audience is impressed by non-musicians who just use processors that the audience cannot and has no interest in understanding. Talent has given way to showmanship.

So then, you don't remember groups like The Monkees?

Rick Schacter wrote:...So then, you don't remember groups like The Monkees?

They're recent to me. They're not from my era. There were a lot of untalented groups around in the 60s.

Alan Brookes wrote:

Rick Schacter wrote:...So then, you don't remember groups like The Monkees?

They're recent to me. They're not from my era. There were a lot of untalented groups around in the 60s.

Alan,
Bad artists/songs have always been around in all types of music.

Getting back on topic:

As I said earlier, if you want to attract younger people to the pedal steel guitar, it would be wise not to have such a crap attitude towards the style(s) that they like.

From what I've read, I don't see a concern about promoting the steel guitar.
Instead, I just read threads from a bunch of older folks lamenting the fact that old style country is dead.

Adapt or die. That's just how the world works.

Rick

All I've said is that to play well you must practice hard and pay your dues. Yeah, I'm such a meanie...[/img]

I rest my case.

Why Paul, if I didn't know better I would think you are a lawyer...

What case ?

Joahcim, I hope you'll reconsider. You're a valuable (or should I say invaluable) resource for music.
Mr. Quinn is being abrasive, but I'm quite sure he doesn't mean anything personal>

This seems to be a negatively stated topic (one whose thesis isn't proved or provable) that amounts to a dumping-ground for negative sentiment
and doesn't help a bit. Once the tone changes it doesn"t want to come back>.

Tom Quinn wrote:Here's a reason right here. Guy plays harmonics way too loud all over the front man's singing and playing and when it's time for him to step up to the plate he chokes. Then it's back to more over-the-top harmonics. Sheesh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsFbtNI8yB4

I thought he played well. Everything was in time and in tune. I couldn't have done any better. We play for the audience, not for other steel guitarists.

Also, I don't expect FOH live sound to be mixed like a studio recording. We have no idea of the balance out there. If the steel is too loud in some parts, so what? Not my problem. Better than the alternative, IMHO.

The fact that the pedal steel guitar is by far the most difficult instrument to play of all

This is not 100% serious, is it?

Lap steel is becoming more popular, sorry guys! Just like vinyl record are making a comeback.

There are a lot of reasons--I think tons of potential players dig the sound but are either a) intimidated by the learning process and commitment, b) don't have easy access to an instrument, c) don't want to spend a ton of time learning music they are not really into.

If guitarists were told they had to learn how to play classical guitar before being able to play what they wanted, how many would just say "nevermind"?

As I said earlier, if you want to attract younger people to the pedal steel guitar, it would be wise not to have such a crap attitude towards the style(s) that they like.

Rick, that is a two-way street...