The Steel Guitar Forum

I don't need any more guitars after this one:

Photo of the herd at the peak...64, 65, 66, 66, 66, 67, 75, 04?...Mr. 67 has gone off to market,

TC

T.C., That certainly is an enviable herd. Could you show a close up picture of one of the changers from your 64 or 65...it looks like the changer axel ends can be seen from the side? How early are the serial numbers from those guitars? Thanks.Your friend. ..jeff bradshaw

Would love to see a pic of the best sounding steel ever made, Randy Reinharts 65 PP.

Heres my two:

DID EMMONS EVER BUILD A BLACK LACQUER P/P GUITAR ????

Steve,
Love those wooden necks!
How do you rate the tone of that guitar?

Here's my wooden neck S10; I like it's bite, but it has a subtle difference to my other guitars (below)






Richard

71 P/P 9/8 The best tone of any guitar I ever heard!

Richard,

I rate the tone as great. I don't have metal neck for comparison. What are the differences between metal and wood you hear? Nice guitars by the way!

Hi Everyone, I love all the Emmons being shown. I have a question for anyone who knows -- I bought what is now a SD-10 Emmons,black fatback from a gent in Mo. back in March. It has an EMMONS STEREO decal and the undercarriage has been changed out with ShoBud Super Pro mechanics. The end plate has a single square cut-out for the tuners and is stamped underneath 'D 00002' for a serial number. It plays great and sounds really nice with the BL-705 pu I got Jim Flynn to install for me. I know Bob Knight owned it for a while but he doen't remember where he got it.
Sooo, if anyone did the work or know any background on I would really appreciate hearing from you. Thanks so much,
Jerry Grant

Jerry
On your SD-10 fatback, without seeing it, I'd surmise it was probably made from 1969 to about 73. The "D00002" serial number is most probably bogus and was added by someone not associated with the Emmons Co. I've seen many, many, too many to count(!) Emmons guitars, including those from 1964 and none have that numbering scheme.

If the decal has a line under the word "stereo," it's a decal that was made by Bobbe Seymour back in the 80's sometime that was a design never used by Emmons. If no line under the word "stereo," it would probably be a Mike Cass reproduction decal made in the early 90's.

Thanks Herb, I looked at the decal just now and there is no line under the word Stereo. Also, it has the cut-tail neck and no tone & volumn controls and no holes to show there ever were any controls. Bill Dearmore told me sometime this past summer that Emmons did make a few SD-10'S early on but he hasn't seen mine yet. Everything looks original except for the ShoBud Super Pro hex cross shafts and rods for which Jim Flynn verified that they were off a Super Pro.
I was just curious if anyone actually worked on my steel.
Thanks,
Jerry Grant

Hey Tommy Young,
Check out P/P of Darvin Willhoites. It's a black laquer.

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D10 8x8 #2208B
S12 6x4 #104S
SD10 4x5 #50L

Jerry, I think that SD10 used to belong to a friend of mine. He traded or sold it to Bob Knight. When he bought it he called me to come and look at it because it wouldn't lower the 6th string a whole tone. I got the surprise of my life when I turned it over. My friend never worked on any of his guitars and didn't know the difference. I'll call him and ask where he got it and PM you.

Just Had to post another shot or two of my Green Machine

On August 08, 2008, Joe Camacho, posted the following:

Sorry to do this, but could someone please explain or post a URL to where I can research the different push/pull models I'm hearing terms like bolt-on, cut tail and fat back and I have no idea what you're talking about. thanks.

I may have missed it, but I saw nowhere, where Joe's question was answered.

The following should clear things up a bit during the evolution of the Emmons' P/P Pedal Steel Guitar. (NOTE: much of this carried over into the Emmons' LeGrandes).

During the early years of the Emmons' P/P's history, some radical changes were made in the "Changer" area of the guitar. Ron Lashley Sr (owner of the Emmons' Guitar Co) was a physics professor and was well educated in the science of sound.

He had the keenest mind I have ever met in my 76 yrs on this planet. A thinker in the highest magnitude of the word. I shall forever cherish our many talks on physics, science and the Pedal Steel Guitar. May Jesus rest his dear soul.

So unlike most, he was very interested in getting THE best sound possible. Thus he made many prototype PSG's. He experimented with a number of things that never made it to production. He also was very wise, in enlisting top PSG players to help him in acheiving that quest.

The following are just some of the things that took place.

1. The "Bolt On"




Notice how the changer axle "end blocks" are bolted directly to the aluminum neck, rather than being bolted to the body of the guitar.


2. "The Wrap Around".





Notice how the aluminum neck wraps totally around at the changer end, all in one piece. And the changer "end blocks" are bolted directly to the body of the guitar.

3. The "Cut Tail"



Notice how the neck is cut out at the changer end, and the changer end blocks are bolted to a block of aluminum (contains the patent numbers) which is bolted to the body of the guitar. (The end blocks are ALSO bolted to the body of the guitar underneath the neck.


4. I was unable to find (in any of the pictures on this thread) a rear view of an Emmons' "Fat Back" PSG.

But I did find a view showing one where the back is cut out (NON "Fat Back"). A number of PSG's have this. Supposedly it is for clearance for the "knees", but this has never made sense to me, since the bellcranks and pullrods, etc, can STILL interfere; even if the back does not.

So I have NEVER seen the need for a cut out in the rear of a PSG. Maybe someone can show me the error in my thinking on this.

However, the Emmons' that do NOT have a cut out in the back apron of the guitar are referred to as: "Fat Backs"



NON "Fat Back".




Note: All of this evolution was to improve on the sound and/or features, and/or problems due to expansion and contraction with temperature changes, of the Greatest Sounding PSG ever built. BAR NONE IMHO!

Sadly, this same guitar has the stupidist mechanics in the history of PSG design. For those that are still in love with it, I respect and love you with all my heart. But you can have it! I will sacrifice a lessor "sound" (more or less) any day, for mechanics that are superbly better (IMO of course)


Hope this helps Joe,

carl

I received the following email after posting the above.

"Carl

Are you SURE that is a real Wraparound you have pictured on the Forum?"

Well, I thought it was, but who am I LOL?. I will look again

That is a curious looking neck. Looks like it came out of Tennessee.



I will try to round up mine and get them on the Forum. I have seven Wraparounds now -- all real ones -- and sold a pair last May on the Forum.

Then you are probably the expert. If I am wrong, I stand corrected.

I should include a picture of #2 which could be added to your Fat Back and normal back pictures, because #2, along with #1 and #3 have a very slim rear apron -- too low for holding cross shafts and cross shafts were even closer to the deck in those days.

I can also add a photo two of my Wraparound Bolt-ons -- one is #8 which is simply a Wraparound neck with very short axle pillars bolted on top, and then I have a 1965 Red Belly Bolt-on that is all Wraparound except that it has the new fangled Emmons ribbed necks with the ledge machined for the axle pillars. I think Emmons had to switch to this design because the axles were bigger in 1965 than they were through November of 1964

Yes, by all means, post whatever you wish dear person. May Jesus bless you. And thanks for your email.

carl


For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

THE most precious verse.

I've have an 80 at Albert Johnson's in Tallahassee under his care for a face lift. Pict's to follow in a month or so

It Took some time and I still need to get a few adjustments finished, but it is up and playing. This started out as a just re-laminate and clean the metal. The guitar was rough and filthy. I ended up making a new wood cabinet, new fretboards, and re-jeweling some of the metal. So Here is a picture of the double 12. I also have a double 10 push pull and it looks like all of the other black ones out there. There sure are a lot of nice guitars out there. A great thread!!!!

Caution: Some viewers may find the following images disturbing. Discretion is advised. Just got this one... this is the "Before" picture. "After" pictures to follow (when refurbished). Sounds like a million bucks though... rusty strings & all