The Steel Guitar Forum

Ben that was some very nice playing,,I really enjoyed that! I think Seattle is going to become a pedal steel town pretty soon.

Hey thanks for coming out Steve and for the kind words on my noodling. It was great getting to talk to you again and meeting your wife.
Please shoot me an email next time you're playing around town, i'd like to come. I'm hoping I'll get to see you this wednesday at the tractor for the Hacienda Bros if I can make that show..gonna try real hard. We got a real good group of young steelers here in seattle and I think over the next couple years we are really gonna be hitting our stride. I hope to not bring TOO much shame on the rest of you guys. Some shame sure...just not TOO much.

The drummer from one of my bands, The Wasco Brothers, will be playing drums with the Hacienda Brothers for their NW gigs. His name is Jeff Minnick. Go introduce yourself. I've told him all about the Forum, so he'll know what you're talking about.

On an unrelated note, I went to see Larry Behm for a couple of hours yesterday. This is one of the finer human beings on the planet. We talked steel non-stop for two solid hours and I walked out of their with tons of great practical advice and a whole new insight into steel. One of the more practical things I got was how to wrestle the beast in and out of the case without destroying either it or my back. If you ever get the chance to go see him, don't pass it up.

Yeah , I've had the great pleasure of meeting and speaking with Larry on several occasions and he is awesome. Great guy, great player. I hope one day to make the drive down and get a lesson from him. You guys are lucky to have him down there.

I started to try to learn how to play steel a few years ago, without much luck. Having a bit more time now, I'm giving it another try.

There are a few things that I don't seem to understand, that hopefully someone'd be kind enough to clear up for me.

Hopefully, most of these things'll be addressed here.

What I haven't seen, is the meaning of copedant.

I see it discussed, but those who use it always expect that the readers know what it means.

Could someone define it, please? Lots of us newer folks don't know what the more knowledgable members are discussing.

Thanks,

--Kevin

Hi kevin,

Definition of copedant :
The setup of a pedal steel guitar; the tuning plus pedal and knee lever pitch changes

Pretty much what it says, the tuning of the strings PLUS the various changes attached t the knee levers and pedals which often differ from guitar to guitar and playuer to player. So when someone says "paul Franklins Copedant"...what they mean is his tuning (E9, B6, C6, A7 whatever)and whats on his left knee left, right knee right, etc etc.

there is I think some debate on how to pronounce this word. and I recall a debate about who came up with this word in the first place as well but cannot recall who the contenders were.

From another thread:

Larry Bell wrote:BTW it's COPEDENT
ChOrd PEDal arrangemENT
pronounced Co - PEE - dent

So that is the definition (and the spelling), I guess.

Could someone please explain what is meant by "Cabinet Drop"? I've seen references to that in several places as being a bad thing, yet I'm not sure I understand what it is, if it is something one can hear, what it sounds like, how would I recognize it if I heard it? I have little or no experience yet, so very likely I wouldn't know it if I did hear it. Is that something that is inherent in single necks, double necks, single on a double neck? Are certain brand guitars more susceptible to it? Is it more common to all wood bodies, or ones with aluminum frames? More common to 12 string or 10 string? What causes it? If your guitar has it, can it be remedied? If so, what has to be done?

-Chuck

Chuck Snider wrote:Could someone please explain what is meant by "Cabinet Drop"? I've seen references to that in several places as being a bad thing, yet I'm not sure I understand what it is,
-Chuck

Chuck, I think the term "Cabinet Drop", is a misnomer. What really happens is there is either some give, or play in the changer axle, (shaft), that causes the open notes such as the E's to flatten slightly when the pedals are pressed.

Hook up your tuner and watch the open E's as you press the A&B pedals.

I do not think the cabinet gives, or bows, on most modern, well built, pedal steels. It is most likely caused by the changer shaft, or a combination of that and the linkage. Bill Duncan

Need explanation of another term I see. What does X raise and Y lower mean? Where X = single, double, or triple; and Y = single, double, or triple. I know they're talking about the pedals or levers and what they're capable of. Just need a little clarification on the specifics.

-Chuck

Brand new steel player (just a couple of weeks)and new to the Forum. One of my many issues in trying to learn this wonderful instrument is that my left foot keeps losing the pedals. When I roll to a B pedal/C pedal configuration and move back, my foot loses the A pedal.

I have tried wearing cowboy boots, ropers, regular shoes, and tennis shoes..and just keep having the same problem. I'm trying NOT to look at my feet and concentrate on the bar, but it's really frustrating to finally hit a lick in tune only to be pressing the B pedal and never get the A pedal to roll back in. The A pedal is resting against the left side of my left foot.

Any suggestions?

as a newbie who has played lead guitar in rock bands for 35 years this thread is invaluable. I will be going through it for some time to come. I will be buying my first steel next week. I have had a multi-kord I bought at a flea market 3 months ago but that doesn't really count.

Hello to Chuck, Ric, & Jerry!
Chuck... to get a timely answer to your "x raise and y lower question", it would probably be good to make a new thread under "pedal steel". I wish I could help you with that, but I'm not there yet myself! I see where Ric did that with his "foot slip" question and he has received several answers already. Sometimes things get "buried" here in Beginner's Corner and may unintentionaly get overlooked.
Ric...that non-slip surface seems like a good way to go. At the moment, it is all in training your left foot to really do what it never has done before. Repetition-repetition-repetition is the beginner's mantra!
Jerry...Maybe that Multi-Kord is a collector's item! Many of our oldtimer pro's know about them. What brand/type steel are you getting? Happy steelin'...Bob

It is not a done deal yet but it looks like a 73 Marlen
D10

Chuck, in X raise, Y lower, that refers to how many tunable raises or lowers a guitar is capable of. My first ax was a Sho-Bud Maverick that was single-raise. Each string had one tunable stop for each string to be raised to a certain pitch. It was fine for the three pedals but couldn't do the E levers.

With double-raise/double-lower, you can raise (for instance) the fourth string to F on a lever, then again to F# (3rd pedal), then lower it to D# on lever, and again to D on another lever.

My current tuning needs minimum triple raise/double lower.

Raybob

Donny Hinson's response to Ric's foot slip question (on a separate post in "Pedal Steel") was exactly what I needed to help my left foot stay grounded. His reply is to plant the heel of the left foot directly behind A & B and use that as a pivot point. I was being a little sloppy and not planting my heel. I tried that this morning and wondered what took me so long! Thanks to Donny!

Hey Everybody!

Just bought a Lone Star Steel Guitars' "Texas Special" "Lite" (10 string;E9;3/4). Anybody have any experience with either these guitars or this co.?


Marty

Marty DuBois wrote:Hey Everybody!

Just bought a Lone Star Steel Guitars' "Texas Special" "Lite" (10 string;E9;3/4).

Marty

Mary,

That new PSG of yours is very cool looking. It has a sorta' "simple elegance" about it that I really like.

I don't know a thing about them other than what I've found at this link:

http://www.lonestarsteelguitar.com/

Cool axe! I trust it sounds and plays as good as it looks!

Nice score!!

Johnne Lee

Hi Johnne,

The "simple elegance" as you say is one thing that struck me about these guitars. One other major feature is the guitar weighs in at 17 lbs. and the hard shell case only adds about another 15-20 lbs. The total package weighs less than my amp. My back is not gonna take a beating when I start to haul it around. As far as the sound goes, since I'm a real newbie, I'm still trying ta get the thing in tune. However, the major chords I can play, without using pedals or levers sounds pretty good to me! It came with a George L E-66 pup. I'm really looking forward to learning how to play this instrument! I've been in love with "that sound" as they say for a very long time and only recently convinced myself to take the plunge...

Marty

Marty DuBois wrote:Hi Johnne,

The "simple elegance" as you say is one thing that struck me about these guitars

I've been in love with "that sound" as they say for a very long time and only recently convinced myself to take the plunge...

Marty

Good luck, Marty! I for one would love it if you kept us posted about your progress with the Lone Star. I'll be very interested in your evaluation of the instrument as you develop and grow with it!

Take care,

Johnne Lee

I'd be happy to keep y'all posted on my progress with my Lone Star. A bit more info for your consideration. It's a triple raise-triple lower system and uses an external changer I assume was developed by Jim Flynn (he's the one man Lone Star PSG Co.). My dealings with Jim were excellent; it was nice to have only one person to deal with. From what he said, he has suspended production of his "traditional" PSG due to the demand for his "lite" instruments. Anyway, I'll report on my progress with the Lone Star.

Marty

Hi Marty...Great picture! Thanks for sharing it with us. Looking forward to your progress...Bob

Marty DuBois wrote:... One other major feature is the guitar weighs in at 17 lbs. and the hard shell case only adds about another 15-20 lbs. ...

That blows my mind. If you have an electronic tuner, do us a favor and tune the guitar, then step on A&B pedals while checking the lower E string and see if it went flat and by how many cents. Some tuners don't have "cents" marked but some do.

Raybob

Can knee levers be moved - if so it is really hard to do? I have some structural problems with my left leg, and find that when I sit in a comfortable position to use everything else (pedals, other knee levers, reach the strings, etc) I am not in a good position to use the LKL lever.

I am borrowing a friend's steel and would NEVER do anything mechanical to it! I just need to know if this can be accomplished when I get my own steel.

Also I'm a big man (6'3" 300 lbs) and it seems like I need a "taller" steel if that even exists. My friend let out the adjustable back legs a little bit just so I could get under it, which of course tilted the steel forward a bit. Can one buy a "taller" steel?

These may be stupid questions but I truly do not know...

Rick I think some manufacturers make "raise" kits or height adjustment kits for taller gentlemen like yourself. You may want to check availability before you decide on a brand if you think this is something you are gonna need. i dont know about moving the knee levers...sorry.