The Steel Guitar Forum

Donny Hinson wrote:I thought most any good guitar player knew that vibrato increases sustain...so I'll throw these in just for giggles!

Many soloists vibrato almost any note which is allowed to ring for any length of time as vibrato increases sustain and helps to make the note sing.

from Wheat's BassBook: A Comprehensive Method & Resource for the Electric Bass Guitar.

A well-developed vibrato increases sustain, makes notes "sing" expressively, and ranges from subtle to over-exagerated.

from The Guitar Cookbook, by Jesse Gress.

When a string is bent the note will naturally decay more quickly without a strong vibrato to support it. If you don't already know this, adding vibrato to a note (especially a bent note) can drastically increase the life and sustain of the pitch.

from Perserverance, Vibrato Control and Picking Hand Discipline, by Tom Hess.

However, if it's empirical data you want...

Vibrato is created by the motion of the player’s finger back and forth on the finger board. The variable string length causes a constant frequency modulation. Vibrato is used because it gives the sound more depth and sustain.

from Perception-based control of vibrato parameters in string instrument synthesis
Hanna J¨arvel¨ainen
DEI – University of Padova, Italy
Helsinki University of Technology, Laboratory of Acoustics and Audio Signal Processing, Finland

Well, I'm disappointed, to say the least. I really thought "someone" would comment on all these sources, sources that state that vibrato increases sustain.

Really, folks, I don't make this stuff up.

Well Donny broke it down pretty well. Here is an even simpler test you can do.

Simply place the bar on a single string. Then mute any ring that occurred from the placment of the bar. Next apply some vibrato without picking a note.

You will create ring and sustain from your vibrato alone!

Bravo Georg...not too boring at al (to me anyway).

I would take it from the context that by mass you do not mean weight.

Let's take one mass as lead, another mass as steel of the same weight...shape to suit. Can we agree that the sonic effect would be different?

Do different materials give different preferred resonances?

Would the Qs for these be different?

Would your "tuning fork" construction have preferred vibrational "modes"?

How do you measure the "sustain/sustainment"?

Given that most would agree that the higher harmonics in the vibrating string fall off first, and the fundamental (h1) lasts longest, it would seem that any use of the term sustain/sustainment (jolly good, what?) needs to be qualified re harmonic content.

The "few hundred milliseconds" charge time would seem to indicate that some of the high harmonic have already reduced in amplitude...to what extent can they be recovered?

I am tempted to fire up my Spectrum Frequency Analyzer, and chart out the harmonic behavior of some single string behavior vs bar vibrato and time...and other such, then provide the photos/charts here or on my Photobucket site for public discussion.

As you hinted at the end of your post, it might be too "boring" for many readers.

Edp

Ed -

I could use a dose of boredom.

Respectfully,

Richard

Georg, is there any chance you could post photos of the design you're describing?

Georg -

Visited your site and was fascinated by what I read and saw. You repeatedly refer to an improvement in sustain while alluding to the lack of instrumented measurements. Can you give us a ball-park approximation of the increase in sustain that you've experienced with your design? In particular, the higher strings. Would be most interesing.

Respectfully,

Richard

...hope this helps:

Subject matter - not boring. To the contrary, it's very interesting.
Brevity, to express an idea is always better.
Be concise, use as few words or characters as possible.

As i have posted before i have listened and watched Chalker play in person and over the years he played on many different brand of steels.And always had that same great Chalker tone.I was watching again an old Wilburn Bros tv show and Chalker was playing an MSA and looked as if he was above the fret board and had more sustain than most can get down low on the neck.I believe it was in his hands and he was without a doubt a master of using the volume control.
My question would be.Why do so many who see a tv show,record or what ever and ask,does any one know what kind of steel was being played?
I don't want to start WW3 but without looking i doubt many could tell the difference between an old supro lap steel and a PP Emmons.
It really means nothing but as i have also said i was born with perfect pitch (which is a curse)and i could reconize a good sounding steel (tone)when i heard it but in no way could i tell the brand of steel.depended on the players amp settings and touch.
why do so many have to ask,what kind of steel was Emmons playing on what ever?Rest my case.

Georg; thanks for the expanded explanation, and the website...interesting stuff.

OK, I have been driven to formalize some of the vibration/sustain (attack/dwell/decay) work that is an extension of what we did at Jim Palenscar's shop a couple of years back. It will not be brief,or short on symbols/characters, but will have lots of photos and charts.

Because it will be extensive, and probably NOT what most would prefer, I will post it as a separate thread and alert to it in this thread so those that are interested can see, and those that are not interested can avoid it. This will probably be up next week.

It will cover both the internal and external influences on "sustain" AND spectral content (= tone)...not as "words", but as experimental data and the description thereof...most in chart form direct from the instruments of measurement.

On any stringed instrument that is picked, doesn't the sustain of the note decrease as you approach the bridge?

Georg -

You know that you have my interest thoroughly piqued by your design.

I think that I understand the reasoning behind your two-piece laminated neck. Have you given thought to carrying it one step further and constructing it with three pieces of different lengths? I ask that rather naively while attempting (erroneously so?) to parallel that with a simple broad-band electronic filter in mind. Low Q with a large bandpass. Could a suitable configuration be achieved in milling it out of a single billet of aluminum thus eliminating whatever contribution the interface between the two might have?

Bear with me while I attempt to provide some elementary background for another question. If one wanted to study the characteristics of a vibrating string in the laboratory then one might construct a jig in which the string is stretched between two supports of an apparatus with considerable mass and no unwanted resonances such that, ideally, the entire assembly contributed neither damping nor aid to the oscillations with maximum sustain being limited solely by internal damping forces and the resistance of air. In your design, are you BEGINNING to approach that idealized laboratory model with the "floating" neck/changer assembly? Is this an intended factor which accounts, to whatever degree, for the dramatic increase in sustain? In part, it would appear so. Notice that I've conveniently ignored attempting to discuss any contribution of the cabinet, etc with regards tone and sustain in my question while knowing that you have the neck assembly firmly affixed to the top of the instrument. That might be a subject better left to the likes of Ed Packard and Jim Palenscar and answered in their further investigations into the "why's" of tone and sustain in the PSG.

I would urge you to continue with the evolution of your design and, perhaps - if you can sacrifice some "pickin'" time - to provide some quantitative measurements.

Respectfully,

Richard

I would urge you to continue with the evolution of your design and, perhaps - if you can sacrifice some "pickin'" time - to provide some quantitative measurements.

I'm a "nuts and bolts" kinda guy, myself. I'd rather hear it played.

Georg -

Thanks for the near-instantaneous reply. Please keep us informed as to the status of your experiments and any developments of significance that may occur.

Respectfully,

Richard

The first of the "sustain/sustainment" Photos and charts are up in another thread = "Them good vibrations" Talk about "boring"!

Thank you Ed, I'm patiently waiting for the second installment.

Rick Collins wrote:Sustain is a verb.

Bastard English does not make it a noun.

Ive heard well spoken folks use the phrases "to have sustain" and "to add sustain", but in both cases, the word sustain is used as a noun. But, like most things, theres more than one way to express an idea. Two people watch the same performance. One says "Did you hear the sustain {noun} out of that guitar!?" The other says, "Yeah! He could sustain {verb} that note forever!"
I doubt anyone has used the word sustainable {adjective} in musical terms except maybe in referring to ones career.