Beware of this seller - ALL NEWBEES

David Cubbedge · Post by **David Cubbedge** » 4 Jun 2014 8:27 am

I have been here for a year. I don't know 99% of the folk who post here. One thing I do know is that if I want instructional material or CD backing tracks to play along to, etc., then the last thing I would do is buy from some anonymous seller here. First question that it raises is: Does this person have the right to copy and resell? Most likely not. After I bought my D10, I asked via post about some good C6 instructional material. I got a PM from a forum member, but I did not buy because to me it looked like the author was being cut out of the loop. So I bought my material from the proper source. End of story.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jun 2014 8:47 am

David Cubbedge wrote:After I bought my D10, I asked via post about some good C6 instructional material. I got a PM from a forum member, but I did not buy because to me it looked like the author was being cut out of the loop. So I bought my material from the proper source. End of story.

Good move, David.

I have considered stopping the reselling of course materials entirely here on the forum. It would be an unpopular move, but the authors of courses deserve more than they get. Nobody gets rich from this stuff, and the knowledge gained from every course is well worth the original purchase price.

People can always sell their used courses on Ebay.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 4 Jun 2014 9:27 am

I think selling copies is wrong. That hurts the original sales. But selling something you bought is ok. It's just my opinion. It's not like you buy a steel guitar or anything else for that matter and have to send the maker money every time it sold. I own a chevy Tahoe. But if I sell it I'm not sending chevy part of the check!

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 4 Jun 2014 9:46 am

Jason Putnam wrote:It's not like you buy a steel guitar or anything else for that matter and have to send the maker money every time it sold. I own a chevy Tahoe. But if I sell it I'm not sending chevy part of the check!

But, you're not making and selling copies of the Chevy, and keeping the original...as can be done with lessons.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jun 2014 9:54 am

Of course selling copies is wrong.

My point is that a course isn't just the physical item, it's the knowledge contained therein. You gain that from the original sale and, unlike the Chevy, you keep it when you resell the item.

Some people even make a copy for their own use and then sell the original. Is that right?

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 4 Jun 2014 10:53 am

We live in a world where people copy CDs all the time, they download movies from YouTube, and movies which are just 25 years old get copied and sold by professional companies. I don;t agree with it, and it hits hard when you see works by people like Jerry Byrd becoming in the public domain. If we are going to condemn any one of us for copying the works of others we should look at ourselves and ask if we've ever made a copy of anything that might be copyrighted.
Which of us is going to be the one who casts the first stone?

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Chuck Thompson · Post by **Chuck Thompson** » 4 Jun 2014 11:05 am

Alan! dude the issue isn't that someone made A copy - you know it isn't. That is clouding the issue! The Issue IS copying items to sell THEM! Read the thread - that's what this is about. If you know of other illegal copies being sold then take them up on the appropriate forums. This thread is about the person selling copies of steel guitar related music and lessons.

If you really are for decency then address that.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jun 2014 11:23 am

Nothing by Jerry Byrd is in the Public Domain according to US copyright law, Alan. The laws are surely different in UK, but Disney lobbied Congress successfully to assure that anything from the date of creation of Mickey Mouse forward would never become PD here in the USA.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 4 Jun 2014 11:37 am

I'm glad to hear it, b0b.
I certainly am not justifying the copying of the works of others. I would be extremely annoyed if someone copied one of the songs that I wrote and put his own name on it.

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Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 5 Jun 2014 1:23 pm

As b0b pointed out earlier, of course selling copies that one made themselves is wrong. That pretty much goes without saying.

And if he were to eliminate the practice of selling used, but legitimate courses here then that is his prerogative but it strikes me as having blinders on regarding the big picture.

Those of us who attended college all remember how ungodly expensive textbooks were, and once you received your schedule you would hustle down to the college bookstore and try to find used copies for your courses so that you still had enough money left over that week for peanut butter and jelly to make sandwiches to help keep you alive. I have three kids who have been through college in the past seven years and as bad as it was for me in the '70s to early '80s, today's textbook prices send me reeling!

b0b and I live in the same county and there is literally one good record store left. I am a huge supporter of these guys, I buy a lot of new CDs (I really need to stop!) from them every year, but I also buy a lot of used CDs. If they didn't have the used CD sales, I seriously doubt they could keep the doors open - I know the two partners and they have been treading on thin ice for quite some time now with all that has gone on in the recording industry.

If it's uncool or unethical to buy used music learning courses, then it would seem to me to be equally unethical to buy used CDs. but I don't see it that way at all. If I paid $15.99 for a new CD and then decide I'm done with it at some point and the record store gives me $4.50 for it then they retail it a $9, I paid for a legitimate original version, not something that was "pirated," and what I choose to do with that original version at some point in the future is up to me, I earned that right by purchasing it legitimately when it was new.

Back to books, if it were unethical to sell used books to bookstores that specialize in that sector of sales, and suddenly people took the idea to heart, where would all these used books end up - in a landfill? The author received their compensation for the original sale of that book, so they have been taken care of in that respect.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Jun 2014 1:29 pm

The difference, Mark, is that book publishers and record companies aren't one-man operations, struggling just to get their products to market. I'm not saying that it's illegal or even wrong to resell steel guitar courses that you bought legitimately. I just don't like supporting and enabling the practice.

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 5 Jun 2014 2:14 pm

I understand where you're coming from b0b, I have nearly all of Jeff's works and a large portion of the DVD offerings that Joe Wright has. I guess it will be after I'm gone before they get sold (unless a sibling or one of their children decide to learn).

I'm not one to watch once and done, I've played them over a number of times because I either forget something or pickup on logic I missed the first few times around. Besides that I enjoy Jeff's dry humor and Joe's play with words.

I think what b0b is alluding to is that most of the course writers for PSG are one (maybe two) person operations, and while not all rely on the course income to make a living, a number of them do, Jeffran for one example. I think Jeff's teachings are as relevant today as they were when he recorded them, and would direct anyone there looking to learn PSG. While I understand the present state of the economy, and why folks are looking for deals, at least give a thought to buying "new" and supporting those who give their time and effort to teach others.

Just my 2 cents, YMMV.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Jun 2016 5:42 pm

I'm all for buying new, but in some cases, "new" isn't available anymore. So, what do we do in that case? Do we throw away a course CD that's not sold anymore, something that could help someone else learn, and obviously (at that point) wouldn't be taking anything away from the person that published it?

No, maybe I'm wrong, but I think the real issue here is profiteering from someone else's work. Buying something with the intent of selling copies, or reselling the original immediately after you've made a copy for yourself. ("Free lessons", in essence.)

Are we really that cheap and lacking in scruples?

Oh yeah, I forgot...we're pedal steelers. That unique fraternity in which some will pay thousands for a guitar, and almost as much for an amp, and then bitch endlessly about the cost of everything else.

Dustin Rigsby · Post by **Dustin Rigsby** » 15 Jun 2016 6:47 pm

Donny Hinson wrote: Are we really that cheap and lacking in scruples?

Oh yeah, I forgot...we're pedal steelers. That unique fraternity in which some will pay thousands for a guitar, and almost as much for an amp, and then bitch endlessly about the cost of everything else.

I was under the understanding that was the way most musicians were...

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 14 Sep 2016 4:25 pm

He's a man of many parts, he would lead you to believe.

A man of very few, if you were to order them. If you like plagues, do a deal with him. If not? You know the rest.

Arch.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 14 Sep 2016 4:47 pm

Rick Barnhart wrote:
But, you're not making and selling copies of the Chevy, and keeping the original...as can be done with lessons.

Good point. So, couldn't the instructors sell read-only files?

It would be cheaper for them to send the material digitally (as compared to burning and mailing CDs) and the contents would be less easily copied.

memphislim · Post by **memphislim** » 14 Sep 2016 5:44 pm

The Ron character referred to in the beginning of this post contacted me today, unsolicited, and offered to have parts made for me to buy from him. I was wary so after a little research, found this post. After further research here and elsewhere I was able to determine the person who contacted me was the same as that mentioned in this post. He has also had unhappy customers else where and if you PM or email me I will let you know the details. To protect b0b I will not post them here.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 15 Sep 2016 1:11 am

Back in 2012 Steve English wrote:This should be made a "sticky" and required reading for all members.

Perhaps there is a legal reason why this hasn't happened, but it's hard to imagine the person in question mounting a successful suit.