The Steel Guitar Forum

A lot of people who didn't think John Coltrane was much of a saxophone player cited his intonation....they complained that he played sharp a lot.

Different genres have different ideas about intonation. Oddly enough, considering where all the criticism is coming from here, one of the main complaints of people who don't like country music is that it is off key. Liberties are taken with intonation intentionally for the emotional impact that would be completely out of place in a symphony orchestra or string quartet. There are "legit" classical sax players who strive for perfect intonation, but jazz saxers push intonation all over the place as a form of expression. The different uses of intonation in different styles and genres are so pervasive and obvious it's hard to believe knowledgeable professional musicians are discussing it here in this way.

How marvelously well said.

I knew Hendrix personally and saw him play numerous times all the way back before he made it when he was playing straight James Brown R&B guitar in a Nashville bar band and up thruout the 60s till he died. I've seen him hump his gutar,play with his teeth etc and I've seen him just stand there and play. He was a fine musician/singer/songwriter/showman/musical historian with mucho depth. He was also a product of the chitlin circuit where like vaudeville,you had to put on a show or you were just another starving act. He was astute enough to employ that in the 60s hippie milieu who had never seen it before to stand out from the crowd to those who had no idea what he was about musically. But it turned out to be a double egded sword - branding him as a psychedelic clown in the minds of those who couldn't connect the dots between Robert Johnson,T-Bone Walker,Curtis Mayfield and LSD. I've seen him time and again throw away a great groove to do the obligatory "sling-the-guitar-behind-your-back-and-play-it-between-your-knees" schtick because like James Brown's cape routine in "Please,Please,Please",that's what the audience had been trained to expect. But I'll say this - his studio recordings were always perfectly in tune. 'Electric Ladyland' is my favorite of that stuff. The live stuff and bootlegs that you hear where he's miserably out of tune just show that he was simply a victim of the fact that he lived 10 years before the Floyd Rose locking tremolo - which wouldn't have ever been invented if Jimi's struggles hadn't pointed out the need for such a device. There's also some great live stuff where he's in tune and quite happening in every way. I'd like to direct your attention to 2 CDs: "Hendrix in the West" and "Live at Winterland". That's the best live Hendrix recordings IMHO - and I've heard him sound just that good on stage. As far as the Woodstock deal,that's a non-issue. If that's all you've heard of Jimi,there's nothin to discuss. That's like summing up Louis Armstrong's contribution to jazz with "Hello Dolly". You need to sit down and listen to the intro of "Castles Made Of Sand" and then whip out your Strat and try to play it. Only a handful of pickers have been able to go beyond "tribute" and cop the essence of Jimi Hendrix and they are Eric Johnson,Tuck Andress and Stevie Ray. My 2 cents.

Michael Johnstone wrote:

Different genres have different ideas about intonation. Oddly enough, considering where all the criticism is coming from here, one of the main complaints of people who don't like country music is that it is off key. Liberties are taken with intonation intentionally for the emotional impact that would be completely out of place in a symphony orchestra or string quartet. There are "legit" classical sax players who strive for perfect intonation, but jazz saxers push intonation all over the place as a form of expression. The different uses of intonation in different styles and genres are so pervasive and obvious it's hard to believe knowledgeable professional musicians are discussing it here in this way.

How marvelously well said.

I knew Hendrix personally and saw him play numerous times all the way back before he made it when he was playing straight James Brown R&B guitar in a Nashville bar band and up thruout the 60s till he died. I've seen him hump his gutar,play with his teeth etc and I've seen him just stand there and play. He was a fine musician/singer/songwriter/showman/musical historian with mucho depth. He was also a product of the chitlin circuit where like vaudeville,you had to put on a show or you were just another starving act. He was astute enough to employ that in the 60s hippie milieu who had never seen it before to stand out from the crowd to those who had no idea what he was about musically. But it turned out to be a double egded sword - branding him as a psychedelic clown in the minds of those who couldn't connect the dots between Robert Johnson,T-Bone Walker,Curtis Mayfield and LSD. I've seen him time and again throw away a great groove to do the obligatory "sling-the-guitar-behind-your-back-and-play-it-between-your-knees" schtick because like James Brown's cape routine in "Please,Please,Please",that's what the audience had been trained to expect. But I'll say this - his studio recordings were always perfectly in tune. 'Electric Ladyland' is my favorite of that stuff. The live stuff and bootlegs that you hear where he's miserably out of tune just show that he was simply a victim of the fact that he lived 10 years before the Floyd Rose locking tremolo - which wouldn't have ever been invented if Jimi's struggles hadn't pointed out the need for such a device. There's also some great live stuff where he's in tune and quite happening in every way. I'd like to direct your attention to 2 CDs: "Hendrix in the West" and "Live at Winterland". That's the best live Hendrix recordings IMHO - and I've heard him sound just that good on stage. As far as the Woodstock deal,that's a non-issue. If that's all you've heard of Jimi,there's nothin to discuss. That's like summing up Louis Armstrong's contribution to jazz with "Hello Dolly". You need to sit down and listen to the intro of "Castles Made Of Sand" and then whip out your Strat and try to play it. Only a handful of pickers have been able to go beyond "tribute" and cop the essence of Jimi Hendrix and they are Eric Johnson,Tuck Andress and Stevie Ray. My 2 cents.

Also well said...

There's no resolving this.

Again, well said. We can all post our opinions 'till the cows come home, but in the end, it won't change anything. You either love JH or you don't.

If our friend and fellow forumite Jerry Hayes dyed his hair purple, he'd be "Purple Hayes."

Hi Jerry.

I don't like Joe Maphis either, all show and no chops, playing his guitar and fiddle behind his back and on the floor to cover up his lack of technique

I just want to say that, unlike Bobbe's humorous "car crashes", Jimi's "bombs bursting in air" moves me to tears. The song is about the tragedy of war and the triumph of freedom. Jimi expressed both ideas in his rendition.

The rockets in the Star Spangled Banner aren't Fourth or July fireworks - they are awful weapons. To my ears, Jimi's bombs expressed the fear of combat, death and destruction that was going on half way around the world, even as he played.

I won't get into a political debate about America's wars, but I just have to say that I find Jimi Hendrix's performance of The Star Spangled Banner to be among the most moving renditions I've heard.

Thank you, Bob..

i'm w: ya Capt
no doubt in my book that Jimi was a patriot

CrowBear Schmitt wrote: no doubt in my book that Jimi was a patriot

I agree. Whether you like his version of SSB or not, (and I must confess, I don't care for it,) his playing of the song was his way of reminding the audience at Woodstock that he and they were all Americans who should be proud of our country and grateful to live here. He was not dissing the SSB, but rather making it relevant to that time and place and that audience.

He didn't have to play the song. He chose to do it. It was an act of patriotism on his part.

When you put your art out for all to see and hear then you have to accept the spin that comes with it from each spinners perception.

As time marches on, you have to bring into perspective how an artists' work is holding up. That is but one measure you can use in evaluating whether or not it has/had merit. Hendrix is holding up very well.

In regards to the SSB, I thought the fact that he played it at such an event in his own style in a way that had NEVER been done before, made it a timeless piece of art/expression. It started out to be for a moment, but it has become timeless.

Even though there is no right or wrong answer in this "debate", Robert Randolph and Jerry Garcia have had a nice rest

Nice post, b0b. Made me think of "Machine Gun" also. What do you all think of "Machine Gun"?

Cliff

Yes, I like "Machine Gun."

I like the whole "Band of Gypsies" album, although at first I wasn't sure. Buddy Miles drumming instead of Mitch Mitchell was a big change, but then I felt the R&B groove, and understood.

...it'd be Machine Gun.
This is pure Jimi, and pure music.
Even the terrible gig at the Isle of Wight has him really pulling it together for this and a very few other #s, like Red House.
Listen to the IoW 5.1 remaster of MG, it's like being inside his guitar.

Machine Gun is one of my favorite pieces of music, ever. My mom cleaned the house when I was a toddler to Band of Gypsys, and my dad made me listen to Machine Gun on the old 8 track copy when I started taking guitar lessons. I've owned the album on the aforementioned 8 track, cassette, twice on CD, and twice on vinyl. In fact, I just picked up a 150 gram limited edition copy today...

I've read quite a few interviews with professional guitar players who talk about 'that one note'. The one that starts the solo after the second verse... It's not every day that someone plays one note that is recorded and people still talk about it almost 40 years later! Machine Gun takes you into the mud, makes you fire a weapon, get shelled, and watch a buddy die.

Hey Bobbe,
Most of the guitar players I have had to play with in "country" bands really admire Hendrix. If you mention Grady Martin, Leon Rhodes, or Jimmy Capps, they don't have a clue. Please don't ask them to try some twin work and if they have to turn off that distortion pedal, they had rather go home. I got a spanking for my opinion in a topic about Ron Wood on steel. Thanks for having the guts to say what a lot of people are thinking.
Bryant

Most of the guitar players I have had to play with in "country" bands really admire Hendrix.

Bryant, those guitar players you mention certainly have the right to their own opinion, however, I believe this is part of the problem with today's country. The music is being bastardized by people who have no clue.

shucks, even Jr Brown plays a few of Jimi's tunes

There are mixed opinions here which good healthy debate. I always fully respect those who have different views to myself. However, I have one eejitt by the name of Quinn from Sacramento who has been IM'ing and emailing me with stupidly childish retorts to my views on this subject....so I am out of this one. I have had to add him to my spam list to avoid any more of his puerile statements. Whatever happened to free speech??

Thank God that all of the people that I have met in the States do not resemble Quinn in any shape or form.

Yes Ken,
I have also received an email off said person, informing me that, whilst he wished me no offence, he did want to let me know that I am an 'asshole', for my dislike of formica

I didn't reply, as silence speaks volumes

Keepers of the flame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M56QwDjE6PQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw9C_KXRGWk

The real deal - don't forget this was 40 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7yPRYL_ ... re=related

I remain convinced that a large portion of the rock n' roll and even pop music of the day was a product of the California drug culture - druggies writing and performing music that only other druggies could understand. And the playing of the era was absolutely absurd, probably because they were too stoned to know what they were doing

Then it sounds like you need to do more drugs.

I'm not sure what to say about bobbe's statement...I’ve heard him say some funny crap, but this beats Chatanooga… “Was she pretty? I don’t know, I couldn’t find her head.”

I’ve been a lead player for 42 years… I own a steel, but I’m certainly not a steel player…yet. But I will say this, anyone who thinks they could pick up a six string for 30 minutes and work up ANYTHING Jimi composed or arranged is a fool. And BTW he didn’t use a fuzz box, just true distortion, harmonics, a vox wah and a phase shifter. He changed the music world and would have done more so if he hadn’t been murdered. If it weren’t for people like Jimi, we’d all still be setting in chairs slanting bars on 6 string lap steels, not that there’s anything wrong with that at all! My point is the arts are all about innovation, whether it be 1969 or today…are we locked into today’s sound or the sound of 20 or 30 years ago? I’m certainly not, but I ain’t nobody, so what does it matter.

Now as for the musician vs. entertainer…IMO folks that set in there bedroom and pick may or may not be a musician, (I’m sure their wife and kids tell them how great they are.) or even set on a stage wherever like a lump and want to slam entertainers might be a little lacking in confidence or ability. But that doesn’t matter either…we all do what we do…as did Jimi, and very well, I might add.

As Jimi said, “Cowboys and Indians never stay in tune anyway.”

Peace and Love

Rick Sharp wrote:are we locked into ... the sound of 20 or 30 years ago?

more like 50 years ago