The Steel Guitar Forum

Brint,

I appreciate your input that reflects great knowledge. I can't imagine why you didn't mention the ease of playing, or the tuning problems caused by undue pressure exerted on the strings. Once the capo goes on,the tuning is out the window.

Bill Hankey wrote:Stephen,

If Segovia was in practice, I seriously doubt if you would espy that little toy within reach called the capo. Those pickers may have the edge on Spanish, much the same as I would have on them if I sat them down to a steel guitar. I wouldn't be overly concerned unless they played both instruments, as I do. Just for the record, I wouldn't accept a capo as a gift.

As a matter of fact, Bill, you would. It's very obvious that you've backed yourself into a corner, you don't know what you're talking about, you're making dumb assumptions based on your own ignorance, and that, in spite of your ability to string long stream-of-conscienceness multi-syllabic sentences together, you have little idea what you're talking about when you actually try to communicate, and show a great deal of cowardice when forced to admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.
By the way, aren't you the same guy who uses a venetian blind for a fretboard?

Just for the record, I wouldn't accept a capo as a gift.

But Bill, not even this one?

Bill Hankey wrote: Atkins depicted as a capo user is pure nonsense.

That depends on what your definition of "is" is.

Stephen,

No doubt you've assisted me without the realization that you did so, by bringing the thread back in line with the rules set in place by the founder of this forum. I'm not usually confronted with so many false statements lobbed at me by one person. Comments such as,"Venetian" blind for a fretboard, assures me that you are in a category of argumentative entities who've blinded themselves to facts. Present them with a few facts that rearranges their unfertile minds, and the war is on. Calling someone a "Coward" is a most callous term used by those who enjoy inflicting pain on another. I wouldn't respond to such an absurdity. Not here, in a steel guitar forum, where readers are obviously not interested in unfair practices. I'll remember your name as one associated with extreme browbeating tendencies. Not to fear though, as your erroneous responses quickly establishes an unwillingness on your part, to recognize the rights of others. Here are some thoughts for the day.. dwell on this for a spell; I say that there never has been a guitar that was perfectly tuned, and when the strings are depressed, a more noticeable decine in detuning occurs. It applies to all stringed instruments. I'm sure you will attempt to pull out a solution to resolve the infinitely realistic problem.

Bill Hankey wrote: argumentative entities who've blinded themselves to facts.

I think that would strike many of us as a perfect description of someone who for some bizarre reason continued to insist that Chet Atkins didn't use a capo even when a video clip proves without any doubt that he did.

Pete,

You've heard the comments of young America who assail the priorities of refined listeners. You must have heard that remark, "Get real" from someone in a group of disrespectful bystanders. You can relate to foul street language, I trust. For that reason, why must you try to dampen my spirits, by not giving a shred of thought to an open mind. You see, such things as fretless steel guitars, 3rd string shock absorbers on the (E9th-G#) tuning, delicate compensators located at the tuners side of the steel, a positive design at the changer that rarely requires changer adjustments. Some have remained without change for indefinite periods of time. I know that the discovery is a plus, after tinkering with "student" models. The contrast is bizarre to say the very least. What is so different about your lifestyle and mine? We're both interested in music at professional levels, and getting caught up in questionable issues in this forum...

Okay, Okay I've got it, CAPO is what they call superman's cape in Mexico.... [/quote]

I guess this is now a capo thread, although I don't recall too many steel guitar capos.

Anyway - what Steve Gambrell and others said is pretty clear; capos work for many players, regardless of skill level

The Segovia and Atkins comparisons don't hold water when you try to compare them...or claim they were superior to...bluegrass players like White, Rice, Watson, et al.

Play Lester Flatt "G" run in the key of Bb with no capo. It doesn't SOUND right. You can play the notes, but you don't have the sound of open strings. There are also many flatpicking licks that use crosspicking with fretted notes at the 5th or 7th fret and open strings in the mix - you're not going to play that in the key of "A" without a capo.

It's not a crutch, it's a tool. Segovia didn't use a flatpick - is that also a crutch?

Taking stylistic tools and turning them into self-proclaimed crutches by mixing irrelevant style comparisons is a pathetically weak argument. Another waste of bandwidth courtesy of...never mind.

Jim Sliff wrote:I guess this is now a capo thread, although I don't recall too many steel guitar capos.

Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQWhb3e6Lqw

Jim,

Thanks for the civility. I could easily say that I'm wrong most of time if that move would quell the disparaging responses. The shame of it all, is that I don't get upset when I find that I've made mistakes. My scrabble book proves that I misspelled "barre", and I thank the person who pointed the error out to me. Don't let your thoughts go to waste. It would be nice to read more about your Fender 1000 experiences.

The chase is on again! I visited "Google" and quickly learned that I didn't misspell "barre" chords after all. The word can be used with either spelling. Both "bar" and "barre" are correct spellings. I noticed that Webster didn't print the barre spelling, and offered nothing whatever in older books for bar pertaining to guitar chords. Now I feel much better. "Barre" is a foreign language. Now, if I can prove that the capo is a giant leap backwards in professional circles, I'll be a happy camper.

I get it now, Bill. For a minute there, you had me, and everybody else fooled, but you---you're GOOD.
Keeping an argument stirred up this long, even though you know the true fact---A capo is a valuable tool, just as important as some type of plectrum---It's pure Hankeyism at its BEST! No fancy words needed, just a desire to keep a thread open--VINTAGE HANKEY!!! Why, you were even able to pull the wool over MY eyes, and I was reading your posts before your illness!
Though faced with videos, photographs, expert knowledge-you still stuck to your guns, and would NOT allow your indefensible position to be overthrown!
Again, sir, I salute you, for the ULTIMATE Hankey prank! There's no way you can top this one!!!

C'MON, Bill!! Don't I get at least an attaboy for figuring out what you're up too, you old scoundrel?

Stephen,

There is plenty of northern hospitality to be found here in Pittsfield, Ma. Most assuredly you would be treated like family if you ever found yourself outside my door. I am here, the same as you enjoying good country music, and trying to make ends meet at the grocery store. Thanks for sharing in the thread's unpredictable changes.

Why does a great guitar player bring a Capo? Too keep from having to bring 12 guitars.
I've heard about every great guitarist in concert and some of them several times during my life time. Most of them used a capo sometimes and made no apology. Some styles require a Capo to play in all keys. Here's one used by Adrian on a 12 string.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t6iGC14 ... re=related

Adrian's a very fine player!! And this clip is a great example of how those ringing open strings are crucial to the arrangement. Now, one might say he could play it on an open neck, sans capo, but that would be a different key, of course. And choice of key is more than just about matching a singer's range. Most songs just 'sound better' in certain keys than in others (for mysterious reasons that I don't understand, but I do believe!)

Jimbeaux,
Isn't "I'm a Believer" one of those songs?

Gentlemen,

I'd like nothing more than to keep going on the capo discussion. I don't know how it can be done without the risk of getting moved. I see a number of weaknesses in the practicality of using capos. For one, the players are frustrated with the poor action of their guitars. The capo brings the action somewhat closer to the norm of ease of fretting the instrument. You'll never find two guitars with the same "feel'. The folksy players around the globe trying to emulate C. Atkins are in the process of searching in vain for a lost art.

Y'know what's really funny here? Bill has hijacked his own thread. If y'all will recall, 5 pages ago, this thread started out being about people saying 'He's Pretty Good'. Now we're all tied up in our undershorts about whether any guitarist worth his salt would ever use a capo. How the heck did that happen?

Well, back on page 3, Bill was curious about tbhenry's profile and took a peek. He saw something there that triggered a free-association into capo-land. What did he see? In tbhenry's profile it states, as one of his many interests: "Teaching Guitar". Teaching guitar? says Bill. Teaching Guitar?? Well! This reminds me of one of my pet peeves: the use of CAPO's by slacker-guitarists. And off we go to the races! No more thread about 'He's Pretty Good'. Now we've got a self-hijacked thread with a raging debate about Capos, all because tbhenry had the nerve to put into his profile that he teaches guitar!

Anyway, that's our Forum history lesson for today. Have a good night.

Y'know what's really funny here? Bill has hijacked his own thread.

Kudos to Jim for just coming out and saying what I was trying to softly imply.

Bill seemed to somehow be trying to tie together skill judgement with capo use, I think. It's a hollow argument.

I can even think of cases where I've used capos to play in what would otherwise be considered "weird" open key because certain crosspicking licks or chords fit in certain spots...usually in overdubs. As I said - the capo is a tool and the "crutch" insults are just as weak as the "anti banjo" sentiments.

But the banjo ones are funnier....

My fave capo argument killer: Watch Gillian Welch's Red Clay Halo where David Rawlings plays the bulk of the song capo-less. At 1:48, while picking, and singing, he grabs a capo out of his pocket to play the solo. He then puts it back in his pocket.

Try do that any other way.

Jim C.,

When I first tried to find some advantages of using a capo, it didn't take long to fathom its disadvantages. I'm having difficulty acknowledging the reasons for the engrossed posturing of the individual, who seems to pointedly enjoy touting gadgetry and contrivances. What's with this special song, special notes, and a dozen other trumped up reasons to detract from true professionalism? Pull offs are hundreds of times more useful than capos. Would you trade your pull offs for the neck clamp, better known as "capo"? Somehow I seriously doubt that you would go that far. I wonder if the makers of fine guitars cringe to see a player lose that much respect for a hand crafted instrument. Opting for another instrument's tone, such as the mandolin, is foolhardy. There are many for sale at reasonable prices. Perhaps the "C" chord is a symbol of nonproductiveness for advanced players, something like a man who doesn't shake hands. No matter how clever a capo user appears to be in the eyes of a student, the imagination always darts ahead of reality.

Stephen,

I've been accused of jumping saddles like a cowboy making a quick getaway in a fast moving movie. In other words highjack this thread. Perhaps you could assist me in getting back to the original proclivity of the two diners at the super market. A steel guitarist in the process of absorbing random crackly criticism from a nonplayer is a bit irritating. I don't relish a double dose of "He's Pretty Good" while eating my chicken fingers and potato wedges. Nothing serious, mind you, but a good start in the direction of abrasiveness. I suppose the retort could stir a hidden ability to overcome temptation, by showing no disapproval of such a sad sack remark.

To CAPO or not to CAPO, that is the question.
....I gotta go pee.