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Topic: newbie alert! - fretting about bar size! |
Richard Miller
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 9:14 am |
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Hi gang!
Well, I'm a brand new player -- make that "wannabe" player -- and I'm armed with a 6-string MOT Magnatone, Cindy Cashdollar's first DVD, and a 3/4 x 2 3/4" Dunlop bar.
Here's what I'm hoping someone can help me with: I'm having a heck of a time finding the right way to hold that bar! I can slide it around the strings okay, but when I lift it up -- or angle it for single-note playing -- it just wants to slip right out of my fingers. I've studied the DVD and tried to match the way Cindy holds hers, but it just doesn't feel secure.
What I'm wondering is whether I ought to be using a different bar size, or if I just need to be patient and the right technique (and finger strength) will come? I don't have giant hands or extra long fingers...
Any advice to calm a struggling newbie's nerves? |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 9:29 am
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There are more experts here than I on the subject, but nevertheless let me give it a go.
The principal control of the bar rest in holding the bar between the thumb and the middle finger, with the index finger being the pressure point when on the strings. I am speaking of a steel bar approximately with a 3/4 inch width.
In this position you should be able to hold the bar horizontally and then let it drop to a vertical position without dropping the bar.
When lifting the bar for single string work, just apply more pressure between thumb and middle finger before lifting.
Practice the exercise of letting bar drop to vertical position from the horizontal position numerous times as mentioned above. This will give you the notion of what is the correct pressure to be applied in holding the bar expecially when you want to move the bar from one position to another.
Most of this will come with some practice.
Happy pickin'.
Aloha, 
Don
Last edited by Don Kona Woods on 20 Aug 2007 10:44 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 9:31 am So YOU think it's not big enough, eh?
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NEVER, Never let size be a factor in your thoughts!
I've found that if your hands are just a bit tacky, from normal daily happenings, you can get a better grip on the bar. You should be able to pick it up and point around the room with it snuggly in your bar holding fingers without any risk of dropping it. Freshly washed, soaped hands are not desireable. Talk about slippery.............
Personally, I'd stay away from the many suggestions that will be forthcoming about using a variety of sticky solutions on your hands, or bars that have finger-thro' contraptions afixed thereto.
You can't expect to master it in just a few days. But it should be a gradual and normal adaptation. I venture to speculate that many of the olde timer pro's here on the FORUM have a tale or two they can tell you about dropping their bar......even after years of playing experience.
Sounds like you're on the right track but DO NOT RUSH into this. This is a lifetime experience. Enjoy every new discovery. Your skills will expand and so will your playing pleasures. |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 9:38 am
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when I first started lap steel sliding I too could not imagine how any one could hold that bar. here it is a few years later and the bbar now feels like anothe finger.
I did start off wioth a Stevens bar. it has a groove on each side. it wasnt long before I changed.
just go slow. if you watch slide players long enough they (we) all make an adjustment move. a little tip up of the slide hand and the slide jumps right back into the zone.
if I can handle a slide you will in no time. |
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Richard Miller
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 10:10 am
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Thanks a million for the reassurances!
When you're starting out with something brand new, it's often hard to separate problems with physical skill from problems with equipment.
Sounds like the prescription is "practice like a madman... but slowly!" That's just what I'll do, and I look forward to the day when that slippery thing becomes an extension of my own hand.
(Any thoughts on the little Magnatone?) |
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Don Kona Woods
From:
Hawaiian Kama'aina
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 10:47 am
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Take a look at this bar and how it is held
I would not use a bar like this myself, but I found it interesting what he was doing with it.
I like the Jerry Byrd Dunlop bar 2 3/4" X 3/4" because it is weighted nicely for balance of tone and faster picking.
Aloha,
Don |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 11:47 am
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Hi Richard, welcome to the forum.
Try gripping the bar between your thumb and 2nd finger.
Your 1st finger is used to steady it and to act as a pivot point/fulcrum for slanting and single note work.
At first it can seem awkward and hard to hold on to, but after a while it becomes a part of you.
This video demonstrates how to do just that.
The whole video is about 5 minutes long, the part you want to see is between 1:12 and 1:46.
_________________
BIG STEEL |
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Jim Newberry
From:
Seattle, Upper Left America
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:14 pm
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Richard,
I'm a newbie also and I'm working on getting used to a bullet bar, but in nervous situations, I find that hanging on to a stevens-style one a little more secure. I've been using a Shubb-Pearse one (SP2 => http://www.shubb.com/sp/index.html ) with its bullet nose and weight seems to work OK. I'm getting better with the bullet and will graduate to it at some point. |
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Richard Miller
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:42 pm
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| Rick Alexander wrote: |
This video demonstrates how to do just that.
The whole video is about 5 minutes long, the part you want to see is between 1:12 and 1:46. |
Heh, I never thought of looking on YouTube... that video is fantastic, just what I needed in combination with the encouraging comments here.
Thanks! |
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Richard Miller
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 2:44 pm
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| Jim Newberry wrote: |
Richard,
I'm a newbie also and I'm working on getting used to a bullet bar, but in nervous situations, I find that hanging on to a stevens-style one a little more secure. I've been using a Shubb-Pearse one (SP2 => http://www.shubb.com/sp/index.html ) with its bullet nose and weight seems to work OK. I'm getting better with the bullet and will graduate to it at some point. |
I actually have a Stevens bar, which is certainly easier to hang on to, but it just seemed as though all the musicians I admire use the bullet! I think I'm gonna grit my teeth and stick with it. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 3:52 pm why develop a bad habit you're going to have to overcome?
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Simply stated, if your desire is to play a Hawaiian steel guitar........
you need to focus on starting out on the right foot.
You're not playing "a slide guitar"....
You're playing a steel guitar....and to that end, you should anticipate that performing straight, forward and reverse slants..........is a part of the game.
To that end, to take the easy way out, is merely short changing yourself. Any bar but a bullet bar will HINDER your attempts to play the instrument correctly and the maximum of its capabilities.
If you're gonna play a Dobro, that's a different story/problem.
Do yourself a REALLY BIG FAVOR! Learn to control the BAR....then the picks, then move on ahead to the next step.
Good Luck to you! Too many instructors, like to many cooks, will spoil the stew! |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2007 8:11 pm
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Herb Remington tells a great story about how on his first gig with Bob Wills he dropped the bar on the first big steel guitar solo to, "San Antonio Rose," and it rolled off the stage and across the dance floor...... But maybe you don't want to hear such things just now..... |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 3:47 am
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| I know the tradition is to use the bullet bar, but as a player with carpal tunnel I have to use a grooved bar. I use a bullet for heavy slanting but find that the SP2 is fairly easy to get proper intonation with if I need to use slants occasionally. If you are doing a lot of pull offs, you may want to use a Scheerhorn or Dunlop Lap Dawg- the pull offs will be cleaner and faster. I have 5 bars in front of me when I play, and I use them all! Don't limit yourself too much. |
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Felix Blevins
From:
Dunlap, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 4:19 am Newbie and bar size
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| I am not trying to promote any particular name brand, but the Tribo tone bar that I have fits the bill better than any other that I have tried, although they are a bit pricey. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 9:08 am
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What price is comfort ?
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 5:27 pm
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The plastic coated bars are truly easier to hang onto. The weight factor for them may be different though. I haven't had one that is durable though. I just use the 3/4 by 2 3/4 or 2 7/8 length Dunlop bars. ( I can't really tell the difference between the two)
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it 
Last edited by Bill Creller on 21 Aug 2007 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 5:33 pm
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The plastic coated bars are truly easier to hang onto. The weight factor for them may be different though. I haven't had one that is durable though. I just use the 3/4 by 2 3/4 or 2 7/8 length Dunlop bars. ( I can't really tell the difference between the two)
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it And don't ask why I posted this twice
The bar and picks, and other miraculous items don't really make you a great player. Practice all the free time you have. That's an important part of it.
Switching bars all the time and trying all types of tunings without getting any good on any one is a waste of time. Find one that's common like E major or C6th etc and stick to it until you feel at ease with it.
Last edited by Bill Creller on 21 Aug 2007 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 21 Aug 2007 5:35 pm
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Learn from the experts. What Ray and Basil said is taken from years of experience and thousands of hours of playing.
There's one dirty little secret... even the experts have dropped the bar on occasions !
Nobody is perfect, and it's not a competition. Just play for the joy of it... |
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