Tuning problems you had and how you resolved them?

graham rodger · Post by **graham rodger** » 19 Aug 2007 1:08 pm

Guitar,Sho Bud SD12 Pro II Custom 8+5 1975 Universal.Double raise,Single lower.
Basically stripped and rebuilt this guitar about a year ago,was 3+4 when i got it.Wondered if I was pushin it with the limited changer and old parts etc.
Enjoyed the challenge,was gonna return it to 3+4 if I failed.Bought new add on parts from John Coop.Put new parts on ABC etc.It tuned ok,but kinda slid out in a few days,Had to keep adjusting barrel tuners underneath regulary.Annoying!Put it down to the fact guitar was old and cabinet drop etc.Though I had bought enough new nylon hex nuts at changer to replace all existing ones I stayed with some of the old ones cos they looked in good condition and kept extra new ones for spares.
The other day just as I was falling out with the guitar I did a few things..decided if I failed I'd buy a new guitar....WELL!!
1.I snipped down the small piece of spring that sticks through the barrel,some of them down to flush,to ease turning the barrel when tuning,though I was worried it might encourage the barrel to rotate freely while playin.
2.I replaced all nylon nuts,ensuring there was a small metal washer behind every one.Some were missing,just a few.

I laboriously tuned it all up perfect thinking here we go again!WELL...

Its like the steel I never had,A new one that stays in tune to a fault!!Been mashin the pedals all week,nothing has moved underneath at all.marked lines on barrels to monitor this.Tuning is fabulous!
No more wrestling with my ear all the time!
Just sweet hands on!!I should have done the job right the first time

Proves its worth replacing nylon hex nuts if you're ear is tellin you somethin is drifting.Anyone had similar issues?

graham rodger · Post by **graham rodger** » 19 Aug 2007 1:14 pm

One more

graham rodger · Post by **graham rodger** » 19 Aug 2007 3:11 pm

p.s John Coops parts are fabulous!!jus i never finished the job properly..Thanks John for makin these parts available commercially

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 19 Aug 2007 5:54 pm

Graham, your guitar is gorgeous... top side as well as underneath! Glad you got your tuning issues resolved.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 19 Aug 2007 11:44 pm

Why does it need barrel tuners AND nylon tuners ?

Why not secure the rod the at the bellcrank end (with the grubscrew in swivel bush) like most Shobuds ?

I can see the tapped hole ready for the grubscrew in your photo

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 19 Aug 2007 11:48 pm

DUH !!
I see that the rods go through two or more bellcranks, my bad

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 20 Aug 2007 2:49 am

Those old Buds are so beautiful. Can they be retrofitted with modern changers?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Aug 2007 4:25 am

Excellent .

A few years back I picked up a Professional D10 with the barrals,

I removed everyone of them off the E9th , took them apart and cleaned them ( yikes labor intensive) put it all back together, set them all at mid point as a starting reference and NEVER had a tuning issue. There were no Nylon Hex Nuts, the rod ends were fixed Allen heads. Probably had 35 years of gunk buildup in the barrals.

I never got around to the C6th barrals, I sold the Steel instead !

Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 20 Aug 2007 6:23 am

Why does it need barrel tuners AND nylon tuners ?

Richard, I thought the same thing. Maybe I'm dense (very likely), but I still don't understand it.

Barrel tuners work, because the whole rod is turned and screws itself into the barrel. The "nut" at the end of the rod is fixed: it does not move.

With nylon tuners, the situation is reversed: the nylon hex screws onto the rod, while the rod is fixed at the bell crank or in this case at the brass disc on the puller.

How both systems can work at the same time is beyond me. On a universal, you'd need 3 raises of string 4 B to C# on P1, P3, P7. This changer only has double raise. ONE rod with barrels for all 3 raises (or at least 2 of them) would solve the problem, but ONLY if the rod with the barrels has a fixed tuning nut and can freely turn. A nylon tuner won't cut it.

Please explain to me where I'm wrong.

Rainer

graham rodger · Post by **graham rodger** » 20 Aug 2007 9:29 am

Yes Richard,The strings requiring more than 2 raises or 1 lower have barrel tuners to tune them underneath.And yes Rainer the nylon hex nuts do infact cut it...provided there is enough thread going into them,and theyre nice and tight.(which was part of my problem really?)
The nylon tuners in the pic that are blue are tuning with the nylon tuners and the rods are fixed with a grub screw at the swivel bush as Richard said,and therefore the rod doesn't spin(because they are either 2 raise or 1 lower).
The white nylon nuts are on strings with either more than 2 raises or 1 lower using barrels on the rods to tune them,this means you have to grab the rod underneath sometimes with pliers to stop it spinning when tuning barrels,but grabbing the rod by hand or by another fixed barrel on same rod with screw sticking out side,works mostly since i cut the little spring secure on the barrel short to avoid fowling on side of bellcrank when rotating.
Its a bit labour intensive,but now its staying in tune I wont have to be under the guitar often.
A few guys on here told me It could be done with a double raise single lower,and I loved trying to find out if they were right,turned out they were..

Thanks Tucker and Mike and Tony,I'm sure Marrs music or John Coop might provide a new changer for these old machines,but I would have to have cut the end plate to accomodate anything bigger,and I was on a budget..wanted to keep it original too if possible.
It turned out OK,was a gamble I guess old parts and all,alls well that ends well...cheers guys

Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 20 Aug 2007 11:58 am

Thanks, Graham, now I get it.

the nylon hex nuts do infact cut it...provided there is enough thread going into them,and theyre nice and tight.

You might want to consider the rods John Coop makes. They have brass 3/16" tuning nuts permanently affixed to one end, much like the Sierra pull rods. I can see that nylon tuners will cut it on clockwise turns when they're at the end of their thread and can't go any further. But on counterclock turns, there's the danger of them wiggling loose. John Coop's brass hex tuners stay fixed - I use them on a '73 LDG with brass barrels behind two-hole pullers, instead of the Sho-Bud originals with their crimped-on allen screw tuners, which can come off.

Thanks for clearing things up for me.

Oh, and that is a mighty pretty looking axe you got there!

Rainer

graham rodger · Post by **graham rodger** » 20 Aug 2007 12:34 pm

Yes Rainer,I hear you,I jus made the best of what I had is all,John's rods would do the job,I'm sure of that,if I have any further problems I'll resort to something like what you described...Like your band website,keep on pickin friend,nice sierra!!