SHO_BUD HELP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keith Ballmer · Post by **Keith Ballmer** » 16 Aug 2007 12:47 pm

Guys I need Help !!!!I might buy this guitar and I
Was this wondering if this was a double Neck at one Time????
is this guitar worth $950 dollars!!!
Thanks Fourm Members!!!
Keith Ballmer

Jim Kennedy · Post by **Jim Kennedy** » 16 Aug 2007 1:08 pm

Check prices in the instruments for sale section. The price for a playable used S10 starts at around $800.00. ShoBuds are becoming more "collectible" and you won't touch an S10 like a Pro 1--Basic 3&2--for less than that. Unless it is physically damaged, or does not play well $950.00 seems like a fair price. If you can, have a knowledgeable picker check it out.

If it was a double neck at one time you shold find telltale signs like lots of screw holes, and an empty tuner section on the end plate. Don't see any screw holes. I can't say i've seen one with a pad quite like this one. Post the serial number. It tells a lot.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 16 Aug 2007 1:22 pm

Those photos are very dim. But if I am seeing right that is the black cast iron frame of a Sho-Bud Baldwin Crossover. It either has had the back (C6) neck parts removed and a pad added; or (less likely) was ordered from the factory that way. These are probably the least desirable of all Sho-Buds. The crossover mechanism that switches the pedals between necks was poorly engineered and caused tuning instabilities. In addition, it may be the heaviest D10 ever made. But they have good wood and good tone. Many of these were converted to a regular double-neck, or to a single neck. Because of all the problems, most knowledgeable players would not pay as much for one of them as a regular D10, or a stock SD10 (single neck on double frame). But if you are willing to put up with the weight and the altered condition, it might be worth as much to you as a low grade S10.

If it's not a converted crossover, then disregard everything I said, and try to give us some better pictures.

Keith Ballmer · Post by **Keith Ballmer** » 16 Aug 2007 2:00 pm

Yeah!!
I am kinda worried that this is a baldwin addition, I am going to get another pic of the front tonight of the front so, please check up on me tonight guys!!
Its really great that this fourm is here..and you guys are here to help me. I have been playing steel for alittle over a year and my steel guitar teacher told me its time for me to advance into a better steel.
I have a family and and a wife who is hounding about steel guitar prices, but I need a new steel very bad.
Thanks guys for the all the support!!!

Ronny Line · Post by **Ronny Line** » 16 Aug 2007 2:21 pm

Keith, If your trying to upgrade, If it were me, Id save a few more bucks and buy something a little better. I would think another few hunderd bucks could buy you a very playable steel you would be happy with. Just my opinion.

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 16 Aug 2007 2:42 pm

Two different kinds of wood on that guitar. I dont believe thats factory. Thats not birdseye maple on the pad side, but appears to be on neck side. Looks like someone got a set of double end plates and went to home depot and made an SD-10 out of it. I wouldn't buy it for half that price, I really think you will regret it. For $1000.00 you can get some really fine guitars right here on the forum. Martin.

Jerry H. Moore · Post by **Jerry H. Moore** » 16 Aug 2007 2:52 pm

Looks like trouble to me. Save a few more bucks and get something else. Looks like somebody made some parts under there. That's my opinion. The Jackson BlackJack is only 1000.00. They are getting good reviews.

Duane Becker · Post by **Duane Becker** » 16 Aug 2007 2:56 pm

If it were me, I wouldnt buy this one. I'd look for something else and maybe save some more money for a better pedal steel. Duane Becker

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 16 Aug 2007 3:19 pm

It looks like a converted Crossover to me - except that the changer has the metal block surrounding it, which started showing up with the Professional...or actually, with a few transition models between the Crossover and the Prof. It looks like the crossover axle is still there, as well.
It seems to have the same frame underneath at a Crossover. Some wacky KL's as well. But hey, they can't be any more crude than the Bud mechanism was, so they may work just fine.
It was fairly common to see 2 different colors of wood on this model as well. The necks would be a different stain, as well as the front apron alot of the time. Very cool look.
I'd say this is a transition gtr between the Crossover and the Professional. The pad most likely came later.
This could very well be a cool gtr..and then again it might need some serious TLC. Got any more pics?
IMHO, unless you're looking for what may be a project gtr, you might want to wait for a newer, more normal steel to come along.

Keith Ballmer · Post by **Keith Ballmer** » 16 Aug 2007 6:06 pm

Guys here are the pics of the front!!
looks like a baldwin!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 16 Aug 2007 6:11 pm

Keith, You need better pictures, like the end plates, clear pics of the underneath--close-up. Your pics are just too dark to help us do anything but "guess" and speculate. You may actually have a sleeper there, but who can tell.

Keith Ballmer · Post by **Keith Ballmer** » 16 Aug 2007 6:58 pm

I am offering the guy $800 that way if I have to take it down to Danny Hullihen to set it all up for me, It might not break my bank book """but who know's it just might $$$ """ !!! ahhaahha
I will keep you guys imformed!
Keith

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 16 Aug 2007 7:40 pm

Keith,

It is a converted crossover. The homemade knee levers look really wacky to me.... kinda like they are mounted horizontally. I also don't like the where the knees are placed. It looks like 2 knees to me... ans tou will want more at about $150.00 each... so consider that. I would stay away from this one if you are on a limited budget.
It might sound good though.

Josh Engle · Post by **Josh Engle** » 16 Aug 2007 8:42 pm

hey Keith,
I'm a newbie at this pedal steel stuff, but I'll tell ya, I know the baldwin crossover I bought inside and out.The frame and undercarriage are definately what I have on my crossover. I also did alot of research on them here on the forum. I completely took everything apart, refinished it, and got it looking so sweet. My teacher gave me a mid 80's mci d10 to use while the bud was down. Once I finally finished the sho-bud(way more work than I thought), I expected this vintage sho-bud to sound way better than the mci. I was dissapointed to hear this beautiful looking bud didn't come close to the tone of this plain looking mci. Also, I hated where the pedals are located. In all my findings of the baldwin bud, I have never seen any that didn't have an all wood neck. The changer from your pictures isn't a baldwin bud either. Looks to me like this one is pieced together using the heavy baldwin frame. I wouldn't pay more than $400-$500 for this,knowing I'd have to spend alot to get it playing as good as my Carter Starter. For me, the sad thing is after all that work, I now feel like just selling it, as I have since bought that mci for only $500.00.
I say keep your money, something better will come up.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Aug 2007 10:50 pm

I had a Baldwin D-10 for a little while, and it was a fine guitar. It sounded like heaven. It was in great condition, for its age. But with the need for a more portable steel, I sold it and got a Pro 1. Those things sound sweet, but they're a HEAVY load with that aluminum frame, and I'm talking 85 pounds heavy. If you're just at home picking, it may not be a problem. But for portablity, the Baldwin can be a nightmare. I probably wouldn't buy that one. It's at best a mediocre setup with the aftermarket knees and the rack & barrel situation. And the pickup is probably microphonic or half-dead.

It is most certainly a converted D-10, by the way. The first pad didn't make it on a steel until Lloyd invented it in the early 70's. There's no way Baldwin released a pad guitar. It's historically impossible. That guitar you're looking at is a '69.....'70 at the latest, from what I've seen and learned of the Sho~Buds.

You can get a BMI, MSA or Sierra S-10 for under a grand that will work and maybe even sound better than that one.

If you are hell-bent on getting a Sho~Bud (and I can relate), get a more modern Pro 1 or something....at least until you learn more about the ins and out of the Sho~Bud line.

Jeff Agnew · Post by **Jeff Agnew** » 17 Aug 2007 4:17 am

Not many pixels to work with, and resaving a low-res JPG is awful. But see if this helps...

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Aug 2007 6:22 am

Converted Crossover. Empty holes where the C6th keyhead was mounted.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 17 Aug 2007 6:31 am

Also note the crossrods. They're crossover crossrods.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 17 Aug 2007 7:17 am

Add that to the fact that the crossover bar itself is still on the guitar.

Clyde Lane · Post by **Clyde Lane** » 17 Aug 2007 1:48 pm

Looks to me like the whole back "deck" has been removed and a piece of pine with pad attached was added. You can see the vinyl and staples from the bottom side of the guitar.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 17 Aug 2007 2:23 pm

Yeah, what's up with that? Strange bird, that's for sure.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 17 Aug 2007 3:35 pm

If that's the case, the guitar must be a bit lighter anyway.

Chris Allen Burke · Post by **Chris Allen Burke** » 17 Aug 2007 8:03 pm

Carter Guitars quote,
" Nothin' beats a great piece of wood"
The wood on this guitar is killer! I'd but it then junk all the old speed crap and put a modern undercarrage on it plus use all the top parts. Keeping the wood as original as possible. Kinda like tricking out a 57 Chevy.

Beautiful!!
CAB

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SHO_BUD HELP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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