Coverting Dobro to 7 string

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 15 Aug 2007 5:51 pm

Hello, Newbie member here...Has anyone had any experience with converting a Regular dobro to 7 string. Will it structuraly take it? Or does it need extra support internaly? Ive been playing dobro for 8-10 months or so now and I would really like to have triad minors and the like with regular G tuning without spending a fortune on another guitar.

Thanks Matt
Coffeyville Kansas

Eric Ebner · Post by **Eric Ebner** » 15 Aug 2007 8:56 pm

Hi Matt,

I'm no expert but have a little experience with guitar fixes and modifications. If you've got a square neck Dobro you should be fine. I've seen it done where the 4th/middle tuner is installed at the top of the headstock. Then all you need is a nut and new bridge inserts. I think you could fudge the string separation a bit and not have it be an issue. Hopefully some others will chime in with their thoughts.

Check out the Jerry Byrd videos (with Marty Robbins) that Basil Henriques posted a short time ago. He's playing a 7 string Dobro on every tune. The reason I replied to your post is I'm kind of jealous that your actually doing this! I've wanted to for a long time.

Eric

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 15 Aug 2007 11:13 pm

You haven't indicated how nice an instrument you own.

So if it is not a cheap import, and a pretty nice reso, you might consider contacting www.Beardguitars.com in Maryland.

Paul Beard and company have experience doing this very thing - and doing it right - but if it's something like an inexpensive Regal, then you probably can't justify the outlay in cash for what they would likely charge - but they may give you some advice regardless, to get you started down the conversion path.

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 16 Aug 2007 2:22 am

Thanks for the replies...The Dobro I have is a Phil Leadbetter signature Dobro from Gibson OMI. I have the peghead, nut, and saddle figured out, but I wanted to hear if someone else had done the same thing and the guitar held up structuraly? When I distort the neck manualy with my arms the neck feels very strong and it takes a incredible amount of force to distort the 6 string tuning, thus I tend to think it will take it. If not, I have a idea for sort of sort of "tension strut" to mount from the neck block to the end of the guitar.

As for the peghead, my guitar has a solid peghead rather than a slotted. With that, I have a idea of mounting a 7th tuner underneath on the bottom side of the peghead hidden. This tuner would be mounted via a small ebony block fastened to the underside. The tuner would be a banjo type tuner mounted flat in the ebony block. The added string would route over the nut through a slanted or angled small hole through the peghead to the back side. I would line this small hole with a piece of brass tubing to protect the wood that would be flush on both sides.

I have heard that you can get saddles from Beard, but the most important issue to me is the structural integrity of the guitar. I'm hoping to get some more comments on this topic..........

Thanks Matt

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 16 Aug 2007 8:19 am

I've thought about doing that with my Regal RD-45. If I ever do it,my plan is to put a banjo tuner right in the middle of the headstock between the slots sticking straight out the back - just like a banjo. That part is easy. Next,all you do is create a new bridge and nut. The nut would be flared as much as structurally practical and slotted for 7 strings. The only problem I haven't yet figured out is the bridge which has a gap right in the middle where I'd have to put the 4th string.That gap is also where you access the cone tension screw. I guess I could beat this problem by making it an 8 string with 4 string slots on either side of that gap and putting on 2 banjo tuners etc but the nut spacing would be rather narrow in that case.

Michael Hardee · Post by **Michael Hardee** » 16 Aug 2007 12:55 pm

Adding an extra string to a six string squareneck dobro is not a structural issue. You don't need to reinforce the neck, and locating the extra tuner is a minor problem. You can add a banjo tuner like Michael suggested, or for a cleaner look you can always plug the existing holes for the tuners on one side of the peghead and drill four new mounting holes, giving you four tuners on one side and three on the other, the usual setup.

You're worrying about the wrong thing. The major headache will be the bridge: there is really no good way to convert a six string to seven string without a custom spider. Beard makes a special #14 spider for 7 string dobros, the slot for the inserts is offset slightly so you can have an insert with 7 strings that are spaced right and centered properly on the guitar. Call them up and see if they have one in stock they will sell you.

Or, it might be worth your while to just ship the guitar to Beard for a conversion and setup and then you have the best sounding 7 string possible given the limitations of the guitar being used for the conversion. Probably cost you about $200 plus shipping, and you get a new nut, spider, cone and bridge inserts done by experts. Add extra to that guestimate if they have to drill and refinish the pegheard for you.

A seven string Leadbetter would be a cool horn, but do you really want to hurt the resale value by doing a conversion? On the other hand, a new 7 string from Beard would run you about $2800. You could also talk to Gregg McKenna, he makes 7, 8 and ten string dobros, a 7 string birch would run you $1550.

You could always pick up a used Regal at a good price and have Beard or someone like Gregg McKenna do the conversion for you and not have too much invested until you are sure you want to switch to 7 string exclusively.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 16 Aug 2007 4:00 pm

Frankly, I wouldn't be concerned about the resale value of a Leadbetter.

Many folks are quite happy with theirs, while other folks once thay get to talking about the guitar- you can see the steam coming out of their ears. Gibson's quality control on this guitar has been all over the map, and as I wrote above, there have been some really nice ones - but the Gibson Phil Leadbetter model throws up the "red flag" among the hard core resoheads.

Michael Barton of the Washington D.C. area won a Leadbetter as first prize a few years back as dobro champ in the contest at the Rockygrass festival in Colorado. Since he already plays really nice guitars from Scheerhorn and Harper, guess what he did: he sent his Leadbetter to Beard in Maryland to be converted to seven string.

So rather than go through the whole speculation routine here, it make sense to me to get in contact with someone that had a Leadbetter converted to a 7-string - I would recommend you contact Michael, his band Dirty River has a website:

http://williamtheyouth.home.comcast.net/index.html

He also hangs out out on the forum at the Jerry Douglas site:

www.JerryDouglas.com

and the Reso Nation site:

www.Reso-nation.org

You can join either for free, and it would be a good idea to start threads on either/or.

Or just go direct to Beard Guitars, as I suggested in an earlier post.

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 16 Aug 2007 5:49 pm

Hey a big thanks for the leads,

and the great comments about my guitar

I still love it...reguardlous

I'm wondering if a full length saddle could be used on my existing spider? I could place a small drop of locktite on the threads and it should hold....unless the weather plays haveck with the tension on the cone and screw???? Now that I think about it, I guess the small void of aluminum under the center of the saddle would leave a softened tone on the center string?? Well maybe the $200 to Beard is looking better all the time !!

The banjo tuner is exactly what I had planned for the additional string......

Dang it!!! I just need one more string .....matt

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 16 Aug 2007 5:59 pm

Matt Campbell wrote:Hey a big thanks for the leads, and the great comments about my guitar

.....matt

As I wrote above, many folks are happy with theirs - so apparently you got one of the good ones!

But over on the dobro specialty forums, the bad ones that Gibson has let out the door have gotten hammered pretty good - and I think for a guitar that ballparks at $2100 - there's no excuse for that, and Gibson should be hammered!

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 16 Aug 2007 6:47 pm

I'm curious as to what tunings you would use on the 7 string.

Thanx,
Jim

Michael Hardee · Post by **Michael Hardee** » 16 Aug 2007 7:02 pm

Most common is G-B-D-E-G-B-D, standard G dobro tuning with the seventh string in the middle tuned to E, giving your usual tuning plus a G6 or Em7 chord. You could also tune the middle string to F or F#. Pretty versatile, the more I think about it the more I want one.

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 16 Aug 2007 8:24 pm

I sure appreciate all the help, and I think I have all my questions answered, for which I am greatfull. I'll check out the contacts as well as the possibility of having Beard do it, or finding a #14 spider.

When your playing along with a rythmn guitar voicing all the chords for you, the extra string on the dobro isn't as missed. But setting around by yourself, you yurn for that extra note for full sounding minors, sevenths, diminished and the like. So I dont know....

Thanks Matt

Gregg McKenna · Post by **Gregg McKenna** » 16 Aug 2007 8:38 pm

And you'll need to drill and slot your tailpiece for the extra string as well as replacing the spider bridge to the 1 piece bridge insert (offset spider) which actually changes the scale length by 1/4"

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 17 Aug 2007 4:06 am

Matt, if you going to do this 'on the cheap', there is another way to avoid changing the spider. I have a factory built 7 string Dobro, made in the early 70's, that came with split bridge inserts which work o.k., not perfect,but o.k. This guitar has 4 strings on the treble side and 3 on the bass. Variable string spacing is used where the distance between each string is slightly more (wider) as you go from high to low. Also, the first and second string shared the same hole in the 6 string tailpiece (later I changed this to a factory 8 string tailpiece to minimize the side loads on the bridge.

Obviously the nut needs to be replaced with one that will probably stick over the sides of the neck to allow for enough string spacing.

The bridge will need to be a little taller than for the six string to allow for the extra downward movement of the cone due to the increased load. or you can wind up with a lot of rattles and buzzes due to insufficient downbearing.

Thanx,
Jim

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 17 Aug 2007 4:36 am

Jim, A big thanks for the additional info, Ive also been thinking about taking another sacrificial spider and cutting a section out of the saddle groove and very carefully fitting it in the void space to make the slot continuous across the width of the saddle. The screw could go through the whole thing, in fact you could thread the new piece and install the screw upside down, or in other words from the bottom up. IF you got a accassional buzz from a loose screw, you could adjust it by removing the cone.....The elevation of this new slot piece would be crucial in height for even pressure, but thats what they make dial indicators for.
I'll just have to get it all worked out in my mind, then it can happen.

matt

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 17 Aug 2007 4:48 am

DUH..."egg on my face"....after looking at my spider, mine is already continous across the width. I must have been thinking about another guitar that I had....If I could figure a way to thread the spider and install the screw from the bottom up?????? UM.....matt

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 17 Aug 2007 5:59 am

An "offset" spider is commonly used on 7 string guitars. This allows for a single, full length insert, in front of the tension screw.

Intonation is not an issue.

p.s. We've converted at least 2 Leadbetters.

Howard P
Beard Guitars

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 17 Aug 2007 7:26 am

Again, I assume you want to do the conversion on the cheap. They do not give the offset spiders away! If you can do a mod as cheaply as possible and check out the sound and the playing of a 7 stringer, and you like it, then invest the bucks and get a factory made 7 string guitar, not someone else's kludge.

Thanx,
Jim

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 17 Aug 2007 8:38 am

I don't think that Gregg ever "kluged" one

You can call us anytime with questions....No obligations.

I'm betting Gregg would lend a hand also.

I find it odd that we're seeing interest in 7 string Leadbetters all of a sudden.

h

Matt Campbell · Post by **Matt Campbell** » 17 Aug 2007 12:29 pm

Well, that's easy to explain, I'm a ODD person

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 17 Aug 2007 12:56 pm

Welcome to the club!!

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 17 Aug 2007 4:29 pm

If you're going to go to the trouble of a conversion you might as well go to an 8 string. That's about as wide as you can get without the strings touching the resonator cover plate at the edges. To do that, remove the tuners, plug the holes in the headstock with dowelling, and fit mandolin tuners (which are four-a-side). The length of a mandolin tuner is about the same as a guitar tuner.

I used a similar method to convert a 6-string guitar to a 10-string (5 course) guitar, so that I could use mediaeval tunings.

Michael Hardee · Post by **Michael Hardee** » 17 Aug 2007 5:48 pm

Alan, maybe you can play 8 strings crammed onto an inch and 7/8 nut, I sure couldn't.

Gregg McKenna · Post by **Gregg McKenna** » 17 Aug 2007 6:21 pm

Jim Bates wrote:Again, I assume you want to do the conversion on the cheap. They do not give the offset spiders away! If you can do a mod as cheaply as possible and check out the sound and the playing of a 7 stringer, and you like it, then invest the bucks and get a factory made 7 string guitar, not someone else's kludge.

Thanx,
Jim

The offset spider is a good investment. For about $50.00 no spider mods or bridge insert mods are necessary and your results (string spacing) will be right.

It will change the scale length some, but usually not drastically enough to be an issue on a steel instrument (and may even correct a scale that was origionally off). You can use it with the screw to the front or to the back of the insert (whichever gets the scale closest to where it should be).

Gregg McKenna · Post by **Gregg McKenna** » 17 Aug 2007 6:36 pm

Michael Johnstone wrote:I've thought about doing that with my Regal RD-45. If I ever do it,my plan is to put a banjo tuner right in the middle of the headstock between the slots sticking straight out the back - just like a banjo. That part is easy. Next,all you do is create a new bridge and nut. The nut would be flared as much as structurally practical and slotted for 7 strings. The only problem I haven't yet figured out is the bridge which has a gap right in the middle where I'd have to put the 4th string.That gap is also where you access the cone tension screw. I guess I could beat this problem by making it an 8 string with 4 string slots on either side of that gap and putting on 2 banjo tuners etc but the nut spacing would be rather narrow in that case.

The Regal has a nice wide neck, and an Offset spider bridge would solve the bridge gap problem you're talking about.