steel on Hank Williams recordings

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 4 Aug 2007 5:51 pm

I just picked up a Hank Williams tribute gig. I'm more of a pedal player but want to use my old Stringmaster. What tunings did Don Helms use on those recordings?

This should be fun!

Thanks Dave

Mark White · Post by **Mark White** » 4 Aug 2007 5:55 pm

This may help:
http://www.well.com/~wellvis/donhelms.html

Ben Godard · Post by **Ben Godard** » 4 Aug 2007 9:26 pm

Gibson Console Grande front neck:E13 (G#on top) back neck:B11

Correct me if I am wrong anybody

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Aug 2007 5:57 am

Some of the earlier Hank Williams had Jerry Byrd playing steel and you can tell the difference when you listen to them. Jerry used the C6th tuning on these recordings.

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 5 Aug 2007 6:28 am

That B11 is a quick 2 string retune from A6.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 5 Aug 2007 7:12 am

Do you guys think the gig can be done on C6 with G on top? That's what I most familiar with and I don't have a lot of time right now to learn a new tuning. Thanks for the input.

DZ

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Aug 2007 7:26 am

All of the parts can be played "just like the record" using two 6-string tunings:

Don Helms: E G# B C# E G#
Jerry Byrd: C E G A C E

The songs with the doo-wah tone effect and/or the 3-note forward slant on the top strings are the Jerry Byrd songs. Jerry's steel tone is mellower (Rick vs. Gibson, thicker strings), and his parts are harder to figure out.

The Don Helms songs don't use bar slants. It's also useful to know that Don Helms never played the B and C# strings at the same time. That's part of the reason that his style sounds so clean.

Get the book

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 5 Aug 2007 7:31 am

Retuning high C6 to Don Helm's E6

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Aug 2007 7:40 am

Dave Zirbel wrote:Do you guys think the gig can be done on C6 with G on top? That's what I most familiar with and I don't have a lot of time right now to learn a new tuning. Thanks for the input.

DZ

You don't need the high G at all. Just stay on the middle 6 strings.

I played a Hank Williams tribute gig once with D6th, splitting the difference between Helms and Byrd. Only another steeler would be able to tell that my tuning was "wrong". Even the musicians in the band couldn't hear the difference.

Don Helms' high parts are hard to play on C6th. The solo in Hey Good Lookin' for example is way up there on a C6th neck.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 5 Aug 2007 8:27 am

I'll probably keep the C tuning on the front neck and try the E tuning on the back.

Thanks again-DZ

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 6 Aug 2007 2:03 pm

I don't really have anything to add. I just want to second b0b's assertions. My assesment of the situation lines right up with his. Where is this show? I'd like to attend.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 6 Aug 2007 4:17 pm

Edward, the show is in San Francisco on Thursday Sept. 20 at the Knockout.

DZ

Scott Rogers · Post by **Scott Rogers** » 7 Aug 2007 4:59 am

speaking of the Byrd vs Helms playing with Hank, does anyone know which songs in particular Byrd played on? For instance, I've gone through the entire book by Don Helms (of which I highly reccomend and love btw!), but his interpretation of "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" does not really match up to what I hear on the original recording. I don't have any of the musician credits on the original Hank recordings... I've just assumed it was either Byrd or Helms. But to me, the original "ISLICC" sounds like Byrd! Seems to be some of his "booo-wah" and slants in there. As for playing the Hank Sr stuff, I've done fine with playing a 6 str tuned to E6 (high third). Everything in that book can be done with the first 6 strings... there's not a single note played on 7 or 8 that I can recall!

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Aug 2007 6:54 am

Forum member Walter Stettner compiled a chronology for us a few years ago:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=45968

Ian McLatchie speculated that these are the songs Byrd played on:

Rootie Tootie
Honky Tonkin'
I Can't Get You Off of My Mind
I'll Be a Bachelor 'til I Die
Mansion on the Hill
My Sweet Love Ain't Around
Lost on the River
Lovesick Blues
I'm a Long Gone Daddy
The Blues Come Around
There'll Be No Teardrops Tonight
I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry
My Bucket's Got a Hole In It
A House Without Love
I Just Don't Like This Kind of Livin'

That looks about right to me.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 7 Aug 2007 9:10 am

Don Helms ALWAYS has a high pitched, shrill sort of sound.......like he's playing at the 15th fret and/or above with a Fender (I KNOW it's a Gibson!!!)
Lot's of his background fills are repititious...like he possibly only has a dozen or so. (an exageration, to be sure!!!) He displays minimal vibrato....... He most often plays across the entire string width. He seldom plays harmony with anyone else in the band.

JERRY BYRD on the other hand, has a deeper more mellow tone that is more or less constant. He seldom uses the same back ground "doo-dad" more than once in a song, unless it's a riff and has a role to play.
He usually does some 2 or 3 part harmonies with the lead player and/or fiddle. A majority of his playing is on strings 1 thro'4 and at times, it's difficult to determine exactly what strings he's on as they were all of the same gage, more or less.

Jerry uses several little tricks......... When he's searching for a lower sound, he picks closer to the pick-up and with his guitar/amp combination, it sounds like he goes clear down in the basement to get those particular notes. Very distictive sound.

Jerry's vibrato is very evident......and it quite like a breeze whisking thro' a tall palm tree.......

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 7 Aug 2007 10:14 am

So, who play's on 'Lost Highway'? That's some great steel playing.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 7 Aug 2007 10:21 am

Don Helms

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 7 Aug 2007 11:16 am

That's one tune "Lost Highway".....that I don't have.

Can you help us thro' this dilema or do I need to phone Dr. Laura? Would love to hear it!

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 7 Aug 2007 12:34 pm

If that's DH, then it's way different than his typical style, and is one instance that compares well with JB.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 7 Aug 2007 1:50 pm

I used to sing "Lost Highway". I always thought that the steel was Jerry Byrd, but I could be wrong. I seem to remember that forward slant 3-string 9th chord. The lyrics were something I could relate to in my youth:

I'm a rolling stone all alone and lost
For a life of sin I have paid the cost
When I pass by all the people say
Just another guy on the lost highway

Just a deck of cards and a jug of wine
And a woman's lies makes a life like mine
The day we met, I went astray
I started rollin' down that lost highway

I was just a lad, nearly 22
Neither good nor bad, just a kid like you
And now I'm lost, too late to pray
Lord I paid the cost, on the lost highway

Now boys don't start to ramblin' round
On this road of sin are you sorrow bound
Take my advice or you'll curse the day
You started rollin' down that lost highway

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 7 Aug 2007 2:49 pm

In my opinion Lost Highway is Jerry Byrd for sure. It is nothing like any of Don's playing.

Also I play 99% of Don's stuff on the E9th using the same positions as he does, from his tab book, using only the A pedal. I have not yet found a song that uses the B and C# strings at the same time, although it very well might exist in some other song that I have I don't play.

M.

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 7 Aug 2007 3:03 pm

Most of Byrd's playing on Hank's songs seems to occur below the 12th fret. It has a darker more complex feel and sound. Conversely, Helms' playing is brighter and falls in the upper range of the steel. When I first tried to learn some Hank songs I noticed that there were two very distinct styles. Love 'em both!

Eddie Cunningham · Post by **Eddie Cunningham** » 7 Aug 2007 4:10 pm

I am pretty definitely sure that neither Don H. or Jerry B. recorded Lost Highway. It isn't Dons sound and doesn't have Byrds style !! Maybe Don H. would know.?? Sounds like an earlier recording that wasn't released till Sept. 1949. I have no idea who the steeler was !! Must be written down somewhere ?? Eddie "C" ( old Hank fan !! )

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 7 Aug 2007 4:27 pm

There were a couple of other steel players that Hank used on his recordings; neither Helms nor BYRD. I just checked my library and altho' I'm totally familiar with the song and lyrics, I cannot find the tune on my shelves. Can anyone put it up on the Forum for us all to hear?

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 7 Aug 2007 7:30 pm

I don't remember where i read this but Don Helms was talking about Fred Rose always telling him to play higher on the neck on Hanks recordings.Don said if i play any higher on the neck only a dog will be able to hear it.

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