Sho-bud pedal steel found

Tom Thornburg · Post by **Tom Thornburg** » 20 Jul 2007 2:35 pm

Hi again, I had a bluegrass buddy bring in this instrument along with a couple of others that his father-in-law owned and has just passed away. He was afraid to let this go at auction in case it has some value. I told him somebody here would have a pretty good idea what it may be worth. I would appreciate any information you could lay on me about this instrument. The case and guitar are in very fine shape with no real use marks. The (fine tuners?) appear to be bent on the heel end. Thanks, Tom in Colorado

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 20 Jul 2007 2:52 pm

well,looks like Pro I with 3 pedals and we can`t see how many knee levers.So we would need to see the picture of the undercariage and picture of the changer (right side), but this is a fine guitar and probably has a killer tone.I would guess, depends on how many knee levers you have there, you could ask $1500-$1800, but that`s just MHO.

Db

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 20 Jul 2007 4:00 pm

My guess it's a 6139...Great guitar.

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 20 Jul 2007 4:02 pm

Amen--dead ringer for my 6139.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 20 Jul 2007 4:30 pm

Without seeing the underside we can almost certainly say it's a 6139 from the early '70's. A very desireable gtr these days. It may have a few issues, but most likely nothing that couldn't be fixed.
As far as $$$... I've seen them go for around $1000 - 1500, depending on condition. I may be off on that, though...I see that Damir has valued it a little higher.
I've got one just like it.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 20 Jul 2007 4:46 pm

Those of you familiar with this model---what's up with the detached pedals? Do they have to be hooked up to the pedal bar every time as part of standard setting up or have they been disassembled on this guitar for some reason?

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 20 Jul 2007 4:48 pm

They're not supposed to be like that. It's pretty weird, since the pedal rods are still attached to the pedals.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 20 Jul 2007 5:49 pm

Maybe a look at the underside would answer the question...how 'bout a pic or two, Tom?

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 20 Jul 2007 8:18 pm

Identical to the 6139 I bought in 1972. Wish I had it now

http://www.jacksonsteelguitar.com/shousyourbud.cfm

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 20 Jul 2007 8:20 pm

I have one just like it I refurbed for my Daughter, making it a 3x4, with John Coop parts. The tone controls puts it about a '68-'69. These were called a single neck Professional with rack and barrel undercarrage, which yours probably has, Tom. Carefully turn the guitar over if you could and give us a few close-up pictures of the under side mechanics, and we can tell you more. The changer is likely single raise/single lower.

These roundfronts are in the line of the 6139 models--they ARE the early 6139's as stated above. That number 6139 is a model number that spans a long era of Shobud production and style changes, so the number is misleading. Never the less, these roundfronts are easy to upgrade and are in demand. From what the pictures reveal, this guitar probably has only one knee lever out of the factory. It's worth $1000 to $1300 on the open market. Add $100 per knee lever if it has more.

These roundfront Professionals have exceptional tone and karisma, and are very much fun to play. I don't think I would be out of line to go as far as say these little roundfronts have MONSTER shobud tone and are a real sleeper!!

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 20 Jul 2007 9:40 pm

My '72 6139 has the t&v controls, as well as the tap switch. I think they did away with those around the same time they did away with rack & barrel.
I'd like to see some under shots, as well.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 20 Jul 2007 10:06 pm

Yeah Skip, they probably ran them for awhile--typical shobud. Did you buy yours new? I had one of the rack and barrel WITHOUT the volume control and tone knob and center switch for coil tap. Mine, as you can see, had the coil tap switch on the endplate. I had this guitar almost two years ago. Ricky Davis switched out the A, B, and C pedals for the newer two hole pullers, for easier/quieter playing. The rest was left original rack and barrels. This guitar had incredible shobud tone. Either way, they are neet guitars, which ever style you had/have!!

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 20 Jul 2007 10:08 pm

As far as the pedals being off the board, I bet somebody (unfamiliar with packing a steel) couldn't close the case with them sticking up, and took them off without realizing that the pedalboard should go into the case before the legbag. Just a guess, but probably what happened.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 20 Jul 2007 11:20 pm

James, it never fails to amaze me at how many slight variations of models Sho-Bud made over the years. I did buy mine new in 1972 - still have it - and it's got the same setup as the one at the top of the thread....knobs and tap switch on the back shelf. I did remove those ugly black pastic knobs, however, and replace them with chrome Tele knobs.
That's not your daughter's gtr is it? I seem to remember some holes on the back shelf of hers that you were going to cover up with a pad.
Anyway you slice it...these old S10's are sweet gtrs, and seem to be becoming a hot-ticket item.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 20 Jul 2007 11:42 pm

Yeah Skip, Shobud always had surprises coming at ya all the time. That's what makes these old 'buds so cool.
Yeah, I'm with Chris, somebody was probably unfamiliar with the equipment here.

Here's before and after shots of my daughter's guitar. I still have to make that pad. Incidently, my daughter's guitar was bought from a gentleman who bought it new in '68. We are second owners. We put in a new Truetone pup, and John Coop parts. That's Steelseat.com who made my daughter's chair.

The guitar I posted before was one I sold a couple years ago--one I should have kept!!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 21 Jul 2007 12:19 am

James and Skip are correct. $1000- $1300 price range.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 21 Jul 2007 6:21 am

now,if you guys price this guitar at $1,000.00 why would all those LDG`s be in almost $3,000.00 range?I don`t think there should be $2,000.00 difference in price,the pad is pretty much the only thing that this one doesn`t have and LDG has it, and if you really want to you could install the pad on this guitar as well.Would that make it than a $3,000.00 guitar?

Db

my point is...at $1,000.00-$1,300.00 price range for this guitar I don`t think it is neccessery underpriced but I do think that LDG at $2,700.00+ is way overpriced

if you would give $1,300.00 for this one than LDG should be in (depending on condition) the $1,300.00-$1,800.00 price range,IMHO

but if you say $2,700.00 is a good price for an LDG than you can`t give this gentleman only $1,000.00 for this beauty

btw.
James,
great job on restoring that guitar,beautiful work,it is because of people like you that Sho~Bud is still alive and doing well...thank you for that

Db

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 21 Jul 2007 7:11 am

I agree with you, Damir. Perhaps the LDG can seem overpriced at times. The original round front one seems to be the model that brings the big bucks. Perhaps it's the Lloyd Green cache, perhaps it's due to the vintage of the 2 hole puller/bell cranks & brass barrel mechanism that seems to be regarded as Sho-Buds best system. And maybe we're somewhat off on our valuation of the S10.
And there most likely can be a wide range of valuation on these old 6139's as well. I would think a cherry, restored and Cooped gtr like James' would bring considerably more $$ than a stock, unrestored, one KL model.
The only certainty is that nobody's making these old Buds anymore, and they seem to be going for more than they were a few years ago. The same with LDG's, I guess.

Tom Thornburg · Post by **Tom Thornburg** » 21 Jul 2007 9:13 am

Here are a couple pics of the back. Thanks again for all the responses. This site is great and you folks are cool too. Take care, Tom

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 21 Jul 2007 10:50 am

This guitar only has one knee lever. I stick to the lower estimates. LDG's are in a class of there own as far as price goes. It doesn't matter to buyers about the configuration, more the fact that it is an LDG.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 21 Jul 2007 11:12 am

yes,it has one knee lever and because of that price would be lower.As far as LDG`s go they can be in any class they wont but they are not worth $3,000.00 in my book.And the only guitar that is in the class on its own is a push pull, LDG is definatly great sounding all pull,possibly THE best sounding ALL PULL guitar, but nothing comes close to the great tone of the push pull guitar.

Db

still with the only one knee lever this guitar could probably bring betwen $1,100.00 and $1,200.00 at least,guitar looks very nice,it was not abused from the inside and outside finish is in a very good condition as well.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 21 Jul 2007 11:33 am

Is my guitar a 6139? It's a Baldwin/Bud with 6 on the floor (in the middle of the rack) and two right knees. It has the wood wrap-around at the changer. The coil-tap switch is the only "control" on the narrow back deck. It has the most primitive side rails I've ever seen on a rack and barrel guitar. Both rails are cast as one piece, with crossmembers between them. Kinda looks like a ladder. It looks to be a sand casting, and it's mounted to the underside of the deck, not to the aprons. What year would that be?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 21 Jul 2007 11:48 am

Thanx for the kind words Damir and Skip. It is Ricky Davis and John Coop that really deserve the "aware of Shobuds" award.

The thing that prices these babies is availability/rarity. There are few LDG's to be had. Fewer roundfront LDG's to be had; and fewer yet, '73-'74 roundfront LDG's that have brass barrels behind two-hole pullers that are not faded out to puke grey/blue, to be had.

There seems to be some square fronts LDGs popping up occasionally, but most of them have the newer potmetal undercarrages, and to me are second to the original roundfront '73's in desirability. But that's just MY preference. So that's a few reasons the LDGs command top dollar. There are some extremely beautiful squarefront LDGs, and they have been taken care of and look and sound great. It's all what someone wants.

On the otherhand, there are a lot more of these cool little blonde single neck Professionals floating around--there were just a lot of them produced compared to the LDGs. Granted, they too, are getting more and more difficult to find, thus their prices are creeping up the price scales, too. The problem with these little S10's is they were of an era of one knee lever and three pedals, which couldn't keep up with today's music demands. Thus the conversion option. BUT, you still have to buy them cheap enough to sink $700--$900 in them, and yet be somewhat affordable, if you intend to resell. So Skip hit the nail on the head about the conversion value deal. If you intend to keep the guitar for your own use and are satisfied with it, that's one way to justify the cost. But if you plan to do a conversion and sell the guitar back into players circulation, you need to stay pretty on top of the cost. One thing about it, you can't just buzz on down to the Shobud store and go shopping. If you want a sweet little S10 like Tom has, you better grab it while you can. To me, these little singleneck Shobuds are a very cool guitar.

Here's what makes these guitars such a sweet playing/sounding guitar, and appreciates the value. This is the Coop undercarrage of my daughter's little blonde S10.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 21 Jul 2007 11:53 am

John, how about posting a pic or two? Yes, yours sounds like it came out of the crossover era before knees were popular, thus the 6 pedals. Somewhere I think I remember it being a 6141, but with out the pics, I'm guessing. Is yours a wide body or a narrow body with the little shelf?

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 21 Jul 2007 11:55 am

James, it's a narrow body with the small shelf. I'm too dumb to be able to post pics here! Each time I try, somethin' goes wrong. I'd like to blame it on my using a Mac, but,,,, I'll send you a couple of pics.
Thanks, JB

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Sho-bud pedal steel found

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