E13 ?'s

Steve Richards · Post by **Steve Richards** » 14 Jul 2007 9:15 am

Well I think that I've found a tuning that I can sorta relate to, at least as far as a fretted guitar is concerned.

It's (lo to hi) E B D E G# B C# E. I'm trying to find some pointers, tips, tricks etc. using this tuning. I've searched all forums but have only found mention of it here and there, mostly as to the high E being on top or having an F# in the middle instead of the E.

I tried making out a map by hand looking for relationships but didn;t really see anything as far as slants and etc. are concerned.

I'll take and need all the help that I can get. Now if this bar would quit wanting to fly across the room!

thanks a bunch --- Steve

Michael Papenburg · Post by **Michael Papenburg** » 14 Jul 2007 10:25 am

Personally, I would just start out by finding the various minor, major and seventh chord shapes that are available up and down the neck without slants. The key if C seems like a good place to start. Once you learn the neck a bit you can move on the the various slants available.

Also, you might consider lowering the D to a C# to make it a straight E6 tuning. This would give you another minor inversion to work with and would simplify things a bit while your learning. You can always raise that note a half step if you need that 7th.

I came to lap steel from playing guitar and found this approach to work pretty well for me when I was starting out. The map that you created will be helpful in learning scales in the various positions. Once again, I would just start with C and go from there.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 14 Jul 2007 10:40 am

I have used this tuning for (far too) many years...it's great. In place of the D, I have an F# which is a tone higher than the neighboring E, but nevertheless gives you a BIG sound. Try it.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 14 Jul 2007 11:03 am

What string gauges are suitable for that tuning on a Stringmaster???

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 14 Jul 2007 3:34 pm

I regularly post tips and tricks in the magazine Aloha Dream and post tab for the E13th in the Mag and here

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 14 Jul 2007 5:07 pm

I have had this EXACT tuning on my Fender T-8 since 1955.
The only thing I do is to tune the middle E up to F# for some tunes and also rarely tune the D down to C# for a tune or two. But, my home base is the E13 as you describe. Western Swing, POP standards, rock and Hawaiian all are great on this.

Thanx,
Jim

Steve Richards · Post by **Steve Richards** » 14 Jul 2007 6:55 pm

Thanks everybody for the tips so far!

I tried tuning the low D down to C#, first thing I noticed was the Gene Autry Drifting Along With the Tumbleweed bassline. Pretty cool. With the D there I get Ray Charles - What I Say - that's pretty cool too. And on strings 5 thur 1 and back up to 5 I get some sort of a boogie woogie type thing going. There's probably a musical name for that sequence.

I found a link on the forum doing a search and found a fretboard layout program for bass players in which you can customize your number of strings and how they tune open. I tried some various slants on I IV and V7 chords, didn't sound to good, sounded like my dog trying to sing. Could I be using the wrong size bar - Dunlop 2 3/4 x 3/4 - on a 24" scale Sierra or is it just me and I need to practice with it more?

What rock or blues or old country tunes would be good to use this tuning on?

thanks again - Steve

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 15 Jul 2007 9:03 am

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 15 Jul 2007 3:56 pm

I like this version; G# E C# B G# E B E for country and Hawaiian.

...and I'm aware of that, Baz. But it's close enuf for the gist of this thread.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 16 Jul 2007 12:22 am

Ron I think that's E6 rather than E13th, there's no D in the tuning.
It's quite like the C6th up a fourth.

Gary Boyett · Post by **Gary Boyett** » 16 Jul 2007 3:41 am

Here is a site that I use when I want to see different tunings.

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/g ... ex_rb.html

It is only for six strings but that is usually enough.

Steve Richards · Post by **Steve Richards** » 16 Jul 2007 6:20 am

The site that I found linked to on this forum that lets you enter the # of strings and how each string is tuned is

http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-sc ... e-printer/

I like the previous site also

Steve

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 17 Jul 2007 2:35 pm

I played in Montreal with a guy named Jack Messacar who's been using EG#Bdeg#c#e' since the 40s or maybe earlier (Jack's in his mid 90s now, but still playing some.) He played Hawaiian and jazz, no country or Western swing.

He could play just about anything in that tuning, including comping behind any jazz standard I ever tried. He seemed to think that the version with an f# in the middle was the "proper" one and that he'd been cheating for 50+ years. But he liked having the octave there, and it gave him some slants he liked.

I've played with it some. I missed the high b string, so I think I'd prefer the version you have. Jack said it gave more slanting possibilities to have that gap there, and it sure worked for him, he always played nice chord sequences. He sometimes retuned to open A for older Hawaiian tunes. Jack stared on a National tricone, but when that was stolen he bought the National electric 8-string he still has.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 17 Jul 2007 2:43 pm

Get rid of the LOW G# and have a B as the third string.
What use is a third of the chord that low anyway, it'll only cloud the bottom end . IMHO

Keith Hamm · Post by **Keith Hamm** » 20 Jul 2007 2:16 pm

That tunings great for rock and blues, especially if you are a guitar player. Open "E" with a couple of extra strings. all the rock licks, duane, derek, and elmore licks are right there. go up three frets for a box type pentatonic that guitar players like.

Steve Richards · Post by **Steve Richards** » 20 Jul 2007 3:23 pm

Keith Hamm wrote:That tunings great for rock and blues, especially if you are a guitar player. Open "E" with a couple of extra strings. all the rock licks, duane, derek, and elmore licks are right there. go up three frets for a box type pentatonic that guitar players like.

Could you explain this box type pentatonic some more? I also get a little confused as to which way is up 3 frets is. Do you count the fret that you start from?

Any examples of rock or blues played in this tuning that I might be able to listen to or study?

Steve Richards · Post by **Steve Richards** » 20 Jul 2007 5:36 pm

i googled pentatonic scales and i think i understand the concepts pretty well, at least as far as how to play them on a regular 6 string guitar

admin · Post by **b0b** » 15 Jan 2011 2:38 pm

Received via email today:

Gentlemen

I know Jack Messacar and see him regularly at the Veteran's Hospital in Montreal Quebec. He was 98 on Nov 2 and is still fiddling with the same old guitar. I volunteer there singing with my guitar, saw him yesterday and will again in a couple of weeks. How can I get the posting shown above to him. He would be delighted.

Thanks

John Wickenden

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 16 Jan 2011 3:49 pm

I recently switched my E13th to this E tuning:
(high to low)
F# G# E C# B G# F# E

I guess since I dropped the D, it isn't E13th anymore. Maybe E9th ?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 16 Jan 2011 3:57 pm

Tom Wolverton wrote:I recently switched my E13th to this E tuning:
(high to low)
F# G# E C# B G# F# E

I guess since I dropped the D, it isn't E13th anymore. Maybe E9th ?

E69 ....To be E9 it would have to contain the flat 7.

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » 16 Jan 2011 4:03 pm

The 9th won't have the C#, but would have the D, I believe. Without the D (dom 7th) the chord that contains all the rest of those notes make it a C#minor 11th, but it makes more sense as an E6/9.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 16 Jan 2011 4:23 pm

I call that "E pentatonic".

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