Need exact specs for 26' scale.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Jul 2007 9:42 am

Chris Fouke of Industrial Guitars has agreed to build a longer scale steel for me but he needs the specs. I'm thinking 26' scale Stringmaster.

What do I need to deliver to him? The measurements for the fretboard? Anyone know where I can find accurate information?

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Jul 2007 9:53 am

Nah---if he builds guitars (and of course he does), then he has the tools, templates, and calculators to make any scale. I've got a program that will provide the specs for any scale (it's online freeware) but believe me, you just can't make guitars without having these tools. Trust me, he does.

I'd be happy to measure anything you want on my Stringmaster but I can't think of anything that really is essential. Many people do find the string spacing on the SM's too tight. But that's something that you can spec out based on your own experience with guitars you have and (sadly) used to have.

But if you want stuff like measurements from bridge to pickups, for instance, I'll be glad to get them for you. Nothing is etched in stone, though. I'd be interested in hearing other builders' experience with specs such as that and the difference alterations make.

Sorry for jumping in on all your posts--home from work and practicing/forum'ing.

Craig Stenseth · Post by **Craig Stenseth** » 12 Jul 2007 9:58 am

I think you mean 26".

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Jul 2007 10:03 am

"Sorry for jumping in on all your posts--home from work and practicing/forum'ing."

I'm not sorry. Thanks for the help.

From an email from Chris Fouke:

"I could certainly ,atch the string spacing/p/up locations and scale length
of the Stringmaster once I have the specs."

I guess he probably doesn't need fret measurements. If you are home from work, care to take some measurments?

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Jul 2007 10:52 am

<center>26" Stringmaster Specs</center>

measurements are from center/apex of bridge/pickups

parenthetic number is the actual, anal measurement

bridge to pickup #1.......7/8" ( 29/32" )

bridge to pickup #2.......2 3/4" ( 2 13/16" )

pickup #1 to pickup #2....1 15/16"

strings are spaced:

5/16" at nut
6/16" at bridge

string span, 1 thru 8:

2 3/16" at nut
2 7/16" at bridge

My advice is: unless you have played a Stringmaster and really dig the string spacing, consider wider spacing. On the other hand, if pickup choice requires this spacing, well, there you are.

And definitely start planning now for what kind of handcart you will need for a 26 foot steel. My motto: Remember Spinal Tap's Stonehenge!

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 12 Jul 2007 11:28 am

You can find a fretboard calculator (Doug Sparling's, I think) on the far too little used SGF's 'search', or here's a few links that may help, as well as a bunch of other info and stuff;

www.steelguitarinfo.com/other/otherindex.html
http://home.insight.rr.com/steelgtr/build.html
www.frets.com/FRETSPages/lynx.html
www.Martindalecenter.com/Calculators1B_6_Mu.html
http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/tips/C_LAYOUT.htm
www.juliewaters.com/scale-calculator.php?scale=17

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Jul 2007 1:50 pm

Jon, thanks. I've sent the specs to him.

I imagine that the pickup poles will determine the string spacing. Also, on my Fouke Indy Rail, the string spacing does not become more narrow from the bridge to the nut. I imagine that this new 26 foot lap steel will have the same uniformity.

I don't need a hand-truck, I employ a couple of Sherpas.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Jul 2007 2:38 pm

Just to give you something to think about---I'm not clear about whether you have ever played a Stringmaster. It is a holy grail thing for some but it is not everybody's cup of tea. Twangy as hell, thin sounding to some people's ears. In a Fender way. Less of a blues horn than some other steels. I have definitely heard fat & lush SM playing so I'm not talking about lo-fi scratching, for sure. But if you are going to emulate a 26" SM (and there are players who swear by their 24 1/2" & 22 1/2" SM's) I hope you have an idea that there's a lot of choices out there and they are all good but they are all different.

HERE, by the way, is John Tipka's page, a great Stringmaster info source.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Jul 2007 3:02 pm

I've never played a Stringmaster, but 99% of my favorite steel tones are on recordings of The Friends of Dean Martinez. Bill Elm uses a Stringmaster.

Hey Roman, can you post those photos of FODM again? I searched the forum and can't find them. I'm wondering what scale length Bill Elm's Stringmaster has.

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 12 Jul 2007 4:38 pm

Already sent you a message - the pics are somewhere on my Flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romansonnleitner/

BTW, have you and Chris decided on pickups yet? Jason Lollar offers Stringmaster type pickups, and I presume they are as great (& pricey...) as all his pickups, but I'd recommend sending Pete Biltoft from www.vintagevibeguitars.com a message - I have one of his 8-string lap steel pickups in a homebuilt LS, and it sounds absolutely stunning, if you describe your tonal wishes to him, I'm sure he'd wind you a Stringmaster set.

Bill Brummett · Post by **Bill Brummett** » 12 Jul 2007 5:17 pm

I have a 26" T8 Stringmaster and here's my take on it.

I agree that the string spacing is very narrow and this can get frustrating at times. The 26" neck and the narrow string spacing can make lower range slants very difficult. I also have a 24" D10 Remington Sustainmaster pedal steel and a 22" Fender D8 "Diamondhead ( strings through the pickup ). The D8 Fender has the widest string spacing and this (along with the short neck) makes for fairly easy slants. The tone on this one is fairly thin, but still good. (The short neck makes harmonics a little harder, but then if can do it like Kayton Roberts, it doesn't make any difference!!!)

The pedal steel at 24" and "medium" spacing is the most comfortable to play. Slants (yes, I still use a lot of slants on the pedal job) are fairly easy and it probably has the "overall" best tone and sustain of the three.

However, the 26" Stringmaster is the hands down winner on beautiful and clear harmonics. You can be off a tad on your damping block and still get pure and clear harmonics. The longer neck also gives it a mellower tone and there is nothing to compare to it for playing Hawaiian stuff in A6.

Fender only made a few of these and I'm glad I was lucky enough to get one.

I've always been curious why the pedal steel makers haven't gone to this length, since "slanting" supposedely isn't necessary on a pedal machine.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Jul 2007 5:38 pm

Here's a couple of photos of Bill Elm's SM.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/romansonnl ... otostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/romansonnl ... otostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/romansonnl ... otostream/

What scale length is it?

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Jul 2007 6:45 pm

That is not a 26" scale. The 26" board has 33 frets. His has 31. I used to know this but I forget---I think this is a 24 1/2" neck, 29 frets on a 22 1/2" neck. Somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong.

Richard Halverson · Post by **Richard Halverson** » 16 Jul 2007 10:00 pm

You are right or you can go by the fret markers;
2 passed the 24th (22.5)
3 passed the 24th (24.5)
4 passed the 24th (26)

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 17 Jul 2007 4:07 am

So you say 4 Past the 24th is a 26" scale ?
Well on the FENDER fretboard I have there are 4 markers AFTER the 24th and the scale is 23" ?
Baz

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 17 Jul 2007 2:24 pm

No detractors or disparaging words ?

Take me to task, I DARE you !!

23" scale and 4 markers AFTER the 24th fret !!

How come ?

Richard Halverson · Post by **Richard Halverson** » 17 Jul 2007 6:44 pm

Hi Basilh.
Ok I will bite, what rare stringmaster do you have.
I haven't seen a 23" scale.
eager to learn.
Rich

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 18 Jul 2007 1:08 am

Richard, I did say Fender but I didn't mention Stringmaster
I could give you 1000's of clues,but I won't.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 18 Jul 2007 6:16 am

I don't think the string height stat has been posted yet. What is the distance or action, from fretboard to string, of the 26" Stringmaster?

My current Indy Rail has a high action and it will be the furthest neck from me, so I figure the first neck needs a lower action so they will be tiered.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 19 Jul 2007 6:32 am

bump for action measurements. Anyone?

Richard Halverson · Post by **Richard Halverson** » 19 Jul 2007 5:35 pm

Hey Basilh.
You had me going, I just about took the saw and
cut mine down to 23" so I would be correct.
I still might if it will make it sound like you playing!!

Hi James.
The strings on mine are 5/16th off the fret board.
That is to the top of the strings.
The fret boards are 3/8th above each other.
This is on the 26" scale stringmaster.
Regards Rich.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 19 Jul 2007 10:51 pm

If you need one, e-mail me and I'll send you an Excel spreadsheet which can calculate fret positions for any scale length. But, as Jon says, all luthiers have to be able to calculate fret positions or they wouldn't be able to carry out their trade.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 20 Jul 2007 6:32 am

Richard, thanks for the specs. My other neck, the furthest from me of the two necks, has a string height of 12/16. That will give me 7/16 of a tier between the two necks. I hope that's enough to play comfortably.

Any opinions on how string height affects the instruments tone, sustain, etc?

Richard, the luthier hasn't asked about calculating frets and I agree that he surely knows the what he's doing.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 Jul 2007 8:10 am

James Mayer wrote:...Any opinions on how string height affects the instruments tone, sustain, etc?

The string height in itself has no effect whatsoever on tone. But if you have to alter the geometry of the instrument, by raising or lowering the strings, that changes the pressure on the bridge and nut, which will affect the tone. If you do change the height of the strings remember to adjust the height of the pickup.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 20 Jul 2007 9:34 am

James Mayer wrote:I imagine that the pickup poles will determine the string spacing. Also, on my Fouke Indy Rail, the string spacing does not become more narrow from the bridge to the nut.

You can get pick-ups with pole pieces at various spacings. For instance, on a regular guitar the spacing of the bridge pickup is wider than the neck pickup, and they make them in sets for instruments with multiple pickups.
On a regular guitar the neck is narrower, to accomodate small hands (too small, to my mind), while the bridge is wider to give more room to pick between the strings. The reason for the tapered neck disappears when you play with a steel, where the bar is the same length no matter how high you play. So a lot of steel guitars have parallel strings, although not all, because you still need a wider spacing at the bridge to pick between the strings.
If I'm building a 6-string lap steel I use a neck-position pickup, which gives greater spacing. With an 8-string lap steel you have less choice of pickups.
Remember that not all pickups have pole pieces, and even those with pole pieces don't usually have the same number of pole pieces as coils. So you could modify a pickup for a different spacing.
I'm sure Fouke know all about this. Just specify what string spacing you want and if that's a problem for them they'll tell you.