amps that work well both for pedal and six string guitar

Eric Knight · Post by **Eric Knight** » 6 Jul 2007 11:58 am

Im thinking about buying a fender twin reverb amp, would that work well as an amp for my carter s-10 E9th. what about the Vibrolux? i play mostly country-rock. what are some good amps that will provide good sound for both?

Delvin Morgan · Post by **Delvin Morgan** » 6 Jul 2007 12:41 pm

That big heavy FTR would work just fine. But I have a Peavey ValveKing 100 head with Fred Justice 15" BW speaker enclosure, and it sounds great with my Williams S12E9, or the Strat or the Tele.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 6 Jul 2007 1:49 pm

FWIW, as a guitar player for a long time before I started playing PSG, I was never happy with one amp for both. I had a Twin that was pretty close, but not really what I wanted on the guitar side. I've also seen guys use the Peavey Vegas 400, sort of a two-channel Nashville 400 amp.

For me the big contradiction was getting an amp that I could work pretty hard for guitar, and something with much more headroom for PSG. I always ended up with some sort of 'dirty box' on the guitar side to accommodate the clean headroom needed for steel, a POD or whatever, which I was never nuts about.

I have done the Vibrolux Rev for both and it was ok as long as the stage volume stayed pretty low. Better for guitar than steel IMO, and the C neck will pop those stock 10's inside out if you're not careful.

Lots of guys haul one amp and make it work for them, but I finally gave up and started hauling two amps and was much happier, JMO, YMMV, etc. etc...

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 6 Jul 2007 3:46 pm

Eric,

A lot of us are in the same boat that double with the band. I'd always use a steel amp so the steel could hold it's own with the thought that the tele could cut through anything...with a stomp box or two.

I like the tele too much these days and don't want to compromise but I do think that a Fender Twin (BFRI?) would be close...or even the RI Custom Twin with the 15" speaker. The vintage stuff is cool...if you have the time or desire to keep them going.

You may even consider a Nashville 112 for steel and a little tubie-screaming-something for guitar that wouldn't break you back or take up to much car/stage room.

Good luck with your search and if you find something that does both, share it with us!

Tom

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 6 Jul 2007 4:46 pm

I was carrying three amps to cover the instruments I use in the group I work with when I accidently discovered what for me seems to be the ideal solution. I purchased a "Stereo Steel" amp head to use for pedal steel from a Forumite and found when it arrived that it has an input in the rear for an additional preamp. I added a three channel preamp from Carvin to my rack and now this one setup covers everything. Channel one works great for electric guitar and lap steel, channel two (labelled blues) for harmonica or a less edgy guitar sound, and channel three is clean enough for acoustic guitar, banjo, etc. The pedal steel I run through the "Stereo Steel" head. I use this setup to power one (or a pair depending on size of job) of front ported cabs with BW 15's. Sure has shortened setup time and made my life much simpler.

Eric Knight · Post by **Eric Knight** » 7 Jul 2007 10:27 am

thanks everyone, this helps me alot.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 7 Jul 2007 11:21 am

for my money the Fender TWINS are the best bet. Not just that they can deliver for both the Steel and Guitar, but ANY 6 string Guitar, any PUP and pretty much any bandstand volume level that you throw at it.

Sure the Twins can be too clean for the 6 string but a small stomp box processor can take care of that.

We are asking a lot for 1 amp to take care of two extreme duties.The Twin Reverb's are up for the both tasks.

t

David Higginbotham · Post by **David Higginbotham** » 7 Jul 2007 1:50 pm

Eric, this is a great double duty amp and that's what I've been using it for.
Dave
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 1ee57c1aeb

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 8 Jul 2007 6:18 am

Double Duty Amps ...

1) Fender Steel King

2) Fender Twin

3) Webb .... ( Clean pedal and Jazz Guitar )

4) 100 or 150 watt Fuchs ..

5) Mesa Boogie Studio Pre ....

The Vibrolux has 10" speakers ...I haven't heard a 10" speaker that I liked for Pedal Steel ...Fine for Guitar ...Jim

Eric Knight · Post by **Eric Knight** » 8 Jul 2007 9:31 am

thanks a lot everyone.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 8 Jul 2007 11:14 am

On double duty night I use my Fender Twin. If its a steel only night its the Fender Steelking...no complaints.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Jul 2007 8:07 pm

I only play pedal steel, but I play in roots music groups that play both country (or more likely alt-country), blues and rock. I have been dreaming about the ideal setup. I'm thinking it would be a 100+ watt tube amp with a clean channel with clean headroom up to 7 or 8 out of 10 on the volume knob. Beyond that you would get good bloom, crunch and breakup from both the pre and power sections. There would be a second channel or an attenuator on the single channel that would cut the power down to around 25 watts, with a continuous or multiple settings for other low to medium power outputs. If you really wanted to get fancy, there would be a switchable extension speaker cab, so you could use a 15" speaker for the clean steel stuff, and one or two 12" speakers for the lower power, dirtier stuff. And I would put the amp in a head cab, and have separate cabs for the speakers.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 8 Jul 2007 8:20 pm

What David said. There really aren't any. To get really decent 6-string tone you need to have the amp driving pretty hard, so that use of the volume control or an OD will give you some breakup. NOT what most want with steel...and a pedal won't get you there. For "normal" steel you need headroom - for guitar you need to be right on the edge of breakup. One amp won't do it without a power-cut switch or really good attenuator.

Two amps are almost always going to sound better.

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 8 Jul 2007 9:04 pm

I mentioned this on another thread some months back. I have found a combination that works for me.

I play a Fender 400 and a mutt tele, so your mileage may vary with different gear.

Here's what works for me:

I take my Nashville 1000, which is a wonderful steel amp, and then for juicing up the high end and tubifying the sound I put a TubeWorks RealTube 902 rack unit in the second effects loop. I set the drive real lo and the EQ real trebly on the 902.
I set the nashville up alone to sound the way I want it on the steel.

The 902 by itself (i.e. thru a board or another amp) sounds really thin and funky, and the 1000 by itself has nowhere near the sparkly treble my ears want from my tele, but the combination of the two eq curves works out great. The tiny bit of tube character added by the 902 helps also.

I switch the second effects loop by using the Peavy foot switch plugged into the Realtube remote jack.

And for what it's worth, although my playing never garners many compliments, I did get a lot of compliments on my tone when I played the VFW hall a while ago.

If you want to try it, email me and I'll send you the settings that make it work for me. There is a very narrow range of settings that sound right. It took a while of experimenting to find the right combination, but it's there.
It's the "contour" and "bias" controls on the 902 that make it.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 9 Jul 2007 5:15 am

It would be somewhat easier with a Fender steel's lower impedance (and output) pickup(s), depending on what tone you were looking for. But the lower impedance helps keep the input levels somewhat equal.

rpetersen · Post by **rpetersen** » 9 Jul 2007 5:22 am

Peavey Vegas 400!!!!

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 9 Jul 2007 7:00 pm

Jim - You raise a good point about input levels.
My whole deal on this setup is EQ. The 400 has a much hotter signal than my tele, but I just run the amp high enough for the tele and then control the steel with the volume control. When I switch to tele, I poke the volume pedal up higher (depending, maybe to maximum) and it works out fine. If I had to work without the volume control I'd have to come up with some other way of getting both guitars to the same level. I'd probably wind up reaching over and tweaking the amp volume level up a little for the tele.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jul 2007 9:49 pm

This would do it (http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0215700000), the Fender Pro Tube Twin Amp. It is a 100 watt Twin, with a clean channel that would be good for steel, and a high gain drive channel for that Tele. And there is a power cut switch that puts it at 25 watts, which is down in Deluxe territory. The MSR is $1700, not bad for a new amp with those features and that size. But it weighs 80 lbs. If it was mine, I'd put the chassis and reverb tank in a Dual Showman head cab, and use a separate speaker cab. Could be the answer to our prayers.

Tommy R. Butler · Post by **Tommy R. Butler** » 9 Jul 2007 10:37 pm

Nashville 400

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 10 Jul 2007 1:09 pm

Dave Doggett: isn't that "Pro" just the "Evil Twin" in a different box without the red knobs? I thought those things were universally hated as steel amps?

KP

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Jul 2007 1:44 pm

Ken P., I have no idea. This seems to be a new amp for Fender, but who knows what amp from the past they drew on for it. All of them since the Rivera era Twin II have been PC-board tube amps (except the Custom '58 Tweed Twin Reissue). The "Evil Twin" seems to have gotten its nickname from afficionadas of the black-face and silver-face hand-wired Twins. While it doesn't compare to those, it may not be any worse than the other modern PC-board Twins, Vibrasonic, and Dual Showman. Some surf punkers actually liked the Evil Twin to the point of collecting them. And the few steelers that I have heard comment on it, didn't place it worse than other modern PC-board Twins, some even liked it.

Unless someone knows for sure from the schematics, I would guess that the clean channel is like the Custom 15, but the drive channel and the 1/4 volume switch are obviously new.

In my experience any tube Twin, PC-board or not, sounds better than any solid-state amp I have ever heard. But then, I just prefer tube tone. Same thing goes for the complaints about a Twin at low volume. Sure it doesn't sound as good as a tube amp near its top. But a Twin doesn't sound bad to me at any volume. Even at low volume they sound as good or better to me than a solid-state amp at any volume.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 10 Jul 2007 2:58 pm

Ken and David,

I've tried all the modern Fender twin/pro amps, and while the clean channel is nice, I found the drive channel quite gritty yet sort of lifeless. And boxy to boot! Almost.

My 2 cents.

Tom Diemer · Post by **Tom Diemer** » 10 Jul 2007 6:31 pm

A Peavey Stereo Chorus 400 works great with steel or guitar.

Bandit 112 with transtube. Works real nice with steel or guitar.

Like I needed another amp, I was driving along over the 4th weekend, saw a yard sale with a bunch of music stuff for sale, inluding a Fender 2 12 amp sitting there. I gave the guy $150 for it. It's a M-80 chorus, super clean. It's got that Fender clean tone all over it, Fender reverb also, and is superb with Tele. I tried the steel with it too, not bad, not bad at all. It has that nice round sound that's so elusive on most of the guitar amps I've tried. Side note, it's pretty light for it's size. Seems about like the Bandit to lift it, maybe slightly more, but it's got twice the speakers, and this one has plug in casters on it that add to the weight.

If you like Fender clean tone, Fender reverb, but want fairly light weight and solid state, this is the one to try. Maybe I just got lucky. I think these can be had used in the $150 - $250 range.

Downside, grey carpet covering with red knobs.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 11 Jul 2007 4:57 am

Most of the recommendations do not seem to take into account the fact Eric is playing country-rock. I'd assume that he's NOT looking for a squeaky-clean guitar tone, and that's all you're going to get out of the SS amps when used for both steel and guitar. You might be able to add a distortion pedal for some "dirt", but that's not really the question.

Neil Harms · Post by **Neil Harms** » 11 Jul 2007 5:15 am

I've had this same question for years. Currently I use a Fender Vibrasonic Custom. Fender made them for two years. It's basically a 100 watt twin with a 15 in it however it has one channel voiced for steel and one for guitar. Vib and Reverb are available on both channels. It works great for me and that guitar channel has a "fat" switch which makes it give up the goods a little more than a regular twin. I use stomp boxes quite a bit as well.

I've read a lot about the Mesa-Boogie LoneStar and think it would be a great amp for this purpose. The amp lets you pick how much power amp to use for each channel. You could have 100 watts for steel and as little as 5 (or maybe 15) for the other channel. As per usual, good solutions cost bucks....

Enjoy your search for the "answer"....

The Steel Guitar Forum

amps that work well both for pedal and six string guitar

amps that work well both for pedal and six string guitar

A problem for many....