Boss Tone reproduction

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Jul 2007 11:50 am

For the last 10 months I have been working on a reproduction of the Boss Tone. I have tried to keep everything the same as far as the two control wheels, and the off/on switch. It has been a complete nighmare trying to find parts that fit in that small box. We are casting our own plastic boxes, in house, just like the original Boss Tone. I saw how to make some improvements in reliability, and especially in the ease of changing the 9 volt battery. Be advised that all the Boss Tone circuits you see on the internet are not correct. Even the ones from Victorene Instrument Company. I have an original Boss Tone, one of the ones the steel players loved. The biggest difference in the diagrams on the internet and the real deal, is in the capacitors, they are all different. Resistors are pretty close. Pots are not correct on the internet. Back in the 60's transistors were not up to the quality of today's transistors, so I used substitutions. I will leave it up to you to guess what output diodes I used 1N4148 or 914 or maybe germainian. I had forgot how great the old Boss Tone sounded until I got my first proto type working today. My goodness what a great sound, with adjustments at your fingertips. The good thing is there is ZERO high end loss when you switch the thing off and go to straight steel. I hope to have the circuit boards in mass production soon.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 3 Jul 2007 12:06 pm

Keith, if your Boss tone is anything like your volume pedals it has to be top-notch!
Can you give us a hint on what one will cost?

Terry

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 3 Jul 2007 1:42 pm

Keith, the schematics running around the internet are wrong. I have one that I made from tracing the circuit on an original BossTone. The only problem, as you noted, is the original Motorola transistors are not available. I contacted Motorola a couple of years ago about those transistors and all I could get out of them was that they were custom transistors and they have no information on them anymore (or they just didn't want to track down the info) so they wouldn't give me a recommendation for substitutions.

I rewired mine into a different case as the original pots went bad and I couldn't find any replacements. I also wired in a switch so bypass is complete bypass (both input and output).

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Jul 2007 5:28 pm

Really don't have a price in mind. Jack, it took me a while to figure out all the diagrams were wrong. I kept checking my original unit and the diagrams and they did not match. Maybe the diagrams worked good for guitar, instead of steel. Jack, take this word of advise, "Forget about finding those old transistors, new ones sound better". If you want to know what I used, e-mail me. I am using 500K audio pots. On the original Boss Tone remember that jack that plugged into the guitar, and how it would get broke off somehow in your pack a seat. I solved that problem, mine will take a Mack truck to break. Still trying to come up with a name. Peavey named their new distortion unit, "The Womanizer". No kidding! Someone suggested the name, "The fornicator". I didn't like it, so I am still looking for a cool name. Jack I hope you are feeling better after your hospital vists.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 4 Jul 2007 7:30 am

Keith, you should market those to guitarists as well. Years ago I used a Boss tone on my 335 Gibson as the plug was right on the front of the guitar and it worked great. Also I had a Telecaster at the time and drilled another hole and moved the tone control next to the volume control. I then moved the output jack to the metal control plate so I could use the Boss Tone on that guitar too. They have a great "singing" type sound that I really miss in other units. I have an old one in the garage which hasn't worked for years. Be sure and let us know when it's available as I'd love to have one (or two)........JH in Va.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 4 Jul 2007 8:31 am

Keith, I am looking forward to getting my "HILTONE". This is the name of it, isn't it?

Or is it "HIL-TONE"? I have an old Boss Tone and it works great for getting rock slide guitar sounds. I hope you decide to sell it thru your dealer network. I think I can sell a bunch of them.
Jerry

Bruce Bindeman · Post by **Bruce Bindeman** » 4 Jul 2007 8:46 am

Keith,

I have the one labeled - "MUSIC CITY MFG. CO. Nashville". I also have a "BOSS BOOST" by JORDAN ELECTRONICS a division of the Victoreen Instrument Co. (Only one I've ever seen).

Anyway, with the Fender Deluxe input cup, I can't plug the Bosstone directly into the guitar. I've fooled around with it, but not to where I can use it on a gig.

Which version do you find works best with steel?

Bruce

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 4 Jul 2007 9:35 am

Jerry, I kind of like the name Hil-Tone! Nothing sexy about that name, but I like it. Yes, all my dealers will be selling the unit. Bruce, Shot Jackson was involved with Music City manufacturing. From people who worked for Shot, I found he simply bought the units and stuck his sticker on them. Jordan Electronics build the Boss Tones. Jordan Electronis was a division of Victoreen Instrument Co.
I have original engineer factory schematics from Jordan Electronics, and Victoreeen Instrument Co., and the circuit is not like the actual old original Boss Tone I have. Nothing on the internet is correct either. My unit came from a music store in Springfield, Missouri years ago. I don't think Shot Jackson had anything to do with the unit I have. I strongly suspect someone altered the value of the capacitors to fit the sound of a regular 6 string guitar better. That is where the different diagrams originated from. A steel guitar and a regular 6 string stand up guitar are two different animals. At some point I suspect the guitar version was what was put in all the diagrams and circulated. I have heard many distortion units, even those in rack mount effect units. From what I hear, I like the Boss Tone design better than anything I have heard for steel guitar. The big,big,big,big,big,big difference is the thing is plugged right into your guitar. It is not at your feet, where the controls are hard to reach. This puts the two controls, and the off and on swith right at your finger tips. You can match the sound you want right while you are picking, without bending over to the floor, or hitting the off and on swith with your foot. I think the controls right there under your fingers is one reason steel players love the thing so much. I know that is why I liked it so much.

Roger Francis · Post by **Roger Francis** » 4 Jul 2007 11:46 am

How about KE-Tone?

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 4 Jul 2007 11:59 am

Keith, please pay attention to getting the controls more durable. A lot of the old ones I've seen had the adjustment knobs broken or missing on them.....JH in Va.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 4 Jul 2007 3:00 pm

My turning adjustment wheels have lock tite on the heads of the little screws that hold them on. I think losing the wheels all together was more of a problem than the wheels breaking.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jul 2007 3:57 pm

I never liked that sound, but it was very trendy in the 1970's. I figure that the ease of use played heavily into their popularity - no extra wires, just reach over and flip the switch. The sound still makes me cringe in embarrassment for the steelers who use it.

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 4 Jul 2007 5:09 pm

b0b wrote:I never liked that sound, but it was very trendy in the 1970's. I figure that the ease of use played heavily into their popularity - no extra wires, just reach over and flip the switch. The sound still makes me cringe in embarrassment for the steelers who use it.

A little bit goes a long way.

Keith Hilton wrote::D My turning adjustment wheels have lock tite on the heads of the little screws that hold them on. I think losing the wheels all together was more of a problem than the wheels breaking.

Of the dozen or so of these I've seen, at least half had broken wheels. None of the screws were missing.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 4 Jul 2007 6:14 pm

b0b, it's just another tool to help the steel move into other types of music. When a rock singer gets on our stage at the "Little O' Oprey", I go for Boss Tone. When someone wants to do "Don't Worry About Me", you know the old Marty Robbins song recorded with a glitch in the guitar track, I go for the Boss Tone. If I need some violin "strings" I go for.....
yep.

I have seen Joe Wright kick in the "fuzz" and captivate an audience young and old. A lot goes a long way but a little sure fits sometimes.
Jerry

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Jul 2007 2:20 am

I have to somewhat agree with b0b on the Bosstone. Although I have one (got it in 1970) that has been put in a new enclosure, I would much rather have a small overdrive unit the size and shape of a Bosstone. Overdrive is more the current "distortion" sound than the "Fuzztone" units such as the Bosstone.

Don Sulesky · Post by **Don Sulesky** » 5 Jul 2007 3:23 am

I always prefered the Fuzz tone over distortion and why I was partial to the Big muff in the early 70's.
I never owned a Bosstone but would have bought one if I had known about them at the time.
Don

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 5 Jul 2007 5:28 am

Was a Boss Tone the one that was built into the MSAs back in the 70s?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 5 Jul 2007 6:40 am

I really think it was the convenience of the Boss Tone, not the sound, that made it a hit with steel players. Keith, if you can make a distortion unit that sounds good and plugs into the end plate of a steel guitar, I'd be happy to buy one. But if it's a Boss Tone clone - forget it. They just sounded bad, in my opinion.

Ditto with the MSA distortion circuit. The idea of boosting a guitar signal then clipping it back to a sane level with a diode ... well, it just doesn't sound very musical to my ears, no matter how you EQ it.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 5 Jul 2007 7:17 am

b0b I will have to agree with you about steel players liking the convienence of the old Boss Tone.
You have rock and roll, the string sound, or the chello sound with a filp of the switch on the end of the guitar. I personally like the Boss Tone sound, but I fully understand some don't. I recently did a Rockabilly CD where I used distortion on 7 of the 10 songs on the CD. The producers called me back a couple of weeks later and had me re-play the 7 songs with straight pedal steel without distortion. I am aware of what younger people listen to on radio, and 99.9% of the guitars use distortion. I also understand there are many types of distortion, as there are many types of flowers. To answer your question b0b: Yes, I am putting an alternative circuit in the same type of box. It has a totally different kind of sound, it is a totally different kind of flower. I am a small company and nowdays a small company can not compete with the big boys. The only way a small guy can compete with the big boys is have a great product and be totally different. There are hundreds of distortion units that lay on the floor, or mounted in rack systems. I don't know of any that plug into the end of your guitar like the Old Boss Tone. I would not of built a distortion unit unless it was different, in some respect, than all the others.

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 5 Jul 2007 7:35 am

Keith,

How 'bout making your new unit capable of plugging into a Strat, or creating and adapter that allows it to be plugged into a Strat? You couldn't plug the old units into a Strat.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 5 Jul 2007 7:58 am

Great idea, Keith. I still use mine every nite that I play, but the pots are screwed up now. I'd definitely buy one if you built one.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 5 Jul 2007 10:32 am

Alan, all it would take would be a special jack. I'll see if Frank, the man who runs my milling machine, would make you one. Might be a good ideal to offer that option, because there are lots of guitar players. Problem is it would probably be September before we could get to it.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 5 Jul 2007 10:38 am

bob, one other thing: Someone ask me what I was building, the guy asking was not a musician. So I needed to put it in simple layman's terms a non-musician would understand. I told the guy I was building a thing that went on a guitar, that made the guitar sound like a buzz saw hitting a rusty nail. For those experienced in the different sounds of fuzz and distortion I am sure they could tell if the rusty nail was an 8 penny nail or 20 penny nail. Even if the nail was galvanized. I suppose a buzz saw hitting a nail in oak might sound different than a buzz saw hitting a nail in pine.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 5 Jul 2007 11:17 am

Well, I for one am excited! Keith has always made excelent quality stuff and I can't imagine these being anything short of exceptional. I love the originals, too...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Jul 2007 4:47 pm

Keith, one change that I made to my own Boss-Tone was to move both the plug and the jack to the left hand side, when you're facing the plastic case, with the knobs at the top. Crappy photo below...

I simply found that this configuration would just work better on most steels I played. Also, I wouldn't think the transistors are at all critical. Any GP audio type would probably work fine, as long as the leakage factor's not to high.

One "secret" of getting a good sound with the Boss-Tone is not, I repeat - NOT to use a good battery! They just seem to have a far better sound and more adjustment lattitude running at 4v-6v (a "nearly dead" 9v.) than they do running a "new" 9v. battery.

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