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Topic: Fingerpicking acoustic steel |
Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 10 Apr 2006 1:14 pm |
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Hi folks,
Here comes the newbie again with some thoughts and questions that pop up during the journey of steel discovery. 
While I appreciate that the attack and volume one gets with fingerpicks, and although I like my Showcase 1941, ProPik and Golden Gate picks, I just know that I will NEVER achieve the same fluency and sensitivity with picks as I can with my bare fingertips. (My strength, if I have one, as a "Spanish" guitar player is fingerpicking.)
Are there any tricks to get more punch into bare fingerpicking on steel? Growing nails like a classical guitarist, to use in conjunction with the fingertips when some extra bite is needed?
I will soon get a soundhole pickup for my guitar (Fishman Rare Earth), and I guess I can tweak things a bit for an extra edge through an amp?
Is there anyone else out there who has had similar experiences? Finger- and thumb picks are great for certain things, but I feel that bare fingertips have their advantages also.
Or am I just looking for an excuse not to practice, practice, practice to achieve the same speed and fluency with picks as I have without them? 
No, I don't think that's it. I really like to feel the strings with my fingers. |
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Travis Bernhardt
From:
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 10 Apr 2006 4:14 pm
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As far as getting more punch, some people go with the nails, either grown out or fake, but I think the answer really is just to practice a lot and toughen up your fingertips to the point where you can pick really hard and fast. Leo Kottke doesn't seem to suffer too much in terms of either speed or attack from using the flesh of his fingertips, and there are other examples (Ben Harper, for instance).
It's not a better/worse thing, it's a "what sound do I want to hear?" thing. The only place I would argue that picks could really be said to have an advantage is when playing a resophonic guitar; one of the advantages of those instruments is the large dynamic range, and to pull out all that range without picks would require really, really tough fingers (and probably can't be done). Also, the pick attack is a really important part of the sound for some people, but that's the subjective part of the equation, I think.
-Travis |
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Matt Lange
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2006 5:04 pm
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I play acoustic lap without picks, and i think the Travis's examples of Kottke and Harper are very valid. Another great player is Kelly Joe Phelps. He does lap style folk/blues playing on an acoustic lap guitar, and i love the tone he gets.
I also agree with Travis that the tone is subjective; to me, the resonator and fingerpick combination is the bluegrass tone. And while there's tons of great music and great players in the genre, for my playing i'm going for more of a folk and blues approach and i think bare fingers is the tone for that. But again, that's just an opinion.
p.s. what kind of guitar do you play on?
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my music: www.myspace.com/mattlangemusic [This message was edited by Matt Lange on 10 April 2006 at 06:04 PM.] |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 12:35 am
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In the dobro/resonator guitar part of the acoustic steel world-it is pretty much acknowledged that you have to get used to fingerpicks.
I think I have read this sort of question from newer players in the past on the different forums who find the fingerpicks to be awkward, and they often are long time regular guitar players that haven't used them.
It really doesn't have anything to do with the "bluegrass sound" per se, it's the nature of the instrument-and it's how you get the best tone out of it. In another thread, there is a discussion about the new cd "Three Ring Circle" which features Rob Ickes on dobro. One tune on the album is Stevie Wonder's "Isn't She Lovely" which I have seen Rob play live. It would never occur to him to play it without picks because it is a non-bluegrass song. He is able to greatly vary the dynamics in his playing while still using picks, as any decent player should be able to do.
For that matter, Rob also has a newer six string squareneck acoustic made by Tim Scheerhorn, and he still always uses picks.
"I just know that I will NEVER achieve the same fluency and sensitivity with picks as I can with my bare fingertips."
Don't sell yourself short, Fred-I don't buy this. I have run across a few players that had this same attitude, and down the line, once they have gotten thorougly used to picks you ask them how it's going and it's like: "Oh that? It's water under the bridge-I always use picks now."
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Mark
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 1:30 am
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I came from a guitar background when I started playing lap steel and found fingerpicks to be awkward since I always play barefingered or with a flatpick on guitar.
It took me a year or so to get used to the fingerpicks,- now I feel I have a much better control over dynamics, and it's much easier to make the instrument cut through when playing with others (especially on acoustic).
I still prefer the 'feel' of playing with my bare fingers though, and have sometimes wondered about going back to that style, but it would set me back too much.
I guess you just got to make a choice and stick to it......
Steinar
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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights
[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 11 April 2006 at 02:32 AM.] |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 1:37 am
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Thanks very much for the tips everyone!
Matt, I play a 30s Oahu roundneck tuned CGCEGC.
Fred. |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 1:40 am
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Steinar,
By the way - I received your CD yesterday - thanks! Opening track is my favourite after the first listen.
Fred. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 2:54 am
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| Alaska Piks. Fabulous. |
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Bryan Bradfield
From:
Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 12:25 pm
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Fred -
Bill Hatcher is pointing to the next question that you'll have, once you get used to playing with picks. That is, which brand or style of picks is better? |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 12:38 pm
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| Fred, in my opinion, there are certain kinds of phrasing, attack and tonal variations you can only get with fingerpicks - including clear, bell-like harmonics. That said, playing sans picks is underutilized by many players - especially for solo steel. You certainly have access to a softer, rounder sound and more natural muting technique without picks and certain genres - like Latin music - sound better sans picks. This is especially true of recording situations. Nevertheless, if you want to play with others in a band situation, use pick blocking, develop reasonable speed, etc. picks will quickly become a necessary evil. [This message was edited by Andy Volk on 11 April 2006 at 01:40 PM.] |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 4:25 pm
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During the folk era of the 60s I was playing guitar, banjo, dulcimer, lap steel, all with fingerpicks. About 30 yrs. ago I started getting lazy and not bothering. Nowadays I find fingerpicks uncomfortable, and I play guitar, banjo, dulcimer, lap steel, pedal steel, lute, whatever I can put my hands on, without picks.
Having said that, I've been forcing myself to use picks with pedal steel lately, and there's no doubt that it gives a cleaner sound when you're recording. |
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Jennings Ward
From:
Edgewater, Florida, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 4:34 pm
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THERE WAS AN OLD BOY IN NASHVILLE THAT WAS QUITE A PICKER.. POOR FELLOW HAS PASSED ON NOW.. HE NEVER USED FINGER PICKS, JUST A LONG
THUMB PICK... FOR SINGLE NOTE SPEED....
HE [ DOCTORED ] HIS FINGER NAILS TO MAKE THEM HARDER, AND KEPT THEM TRIMED SO HE COULD USE THE NAILS OR THE CUSHION PART IF HIS FINGER. [ TIP ] YOU MAY TRY FAKE ACRYCLIC [SP] NAILS,
REINFORCED WITH SUPER GLUE, CRAZY GLUE, ECT:
MAYBE A LITTLE BAKING SODA UNDER THE NAIL WHILE THE GLUE IS WET.... THEN MANICURED TO
YOUR LIKEING......I WILL NOT REVEAL HIS NAME,
BUT HIS INITIALS WERE C.A. AND A GUY WHOSE
INT. WERE M.T.........
HOPE THIS HELPS... I TRYED IT, IT WORKED FOR ME....JENNINGS,,,,U PK;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +
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Bill Blacklock
From:
Powell River, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 11 Apr 2006 8:04 pm
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Hey Fred,
I tune my Oahu to a "C" CGCGCE, it like a "D" shape with two extra treble strings. |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 12 Apr 2006 2:30 pm
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| Quote: |
| Or am I just looking for an excuse not to practice, practice, practice to achieve the same speed and fluency with picks as I have without them? |
Yes you are!
Seriously, i had a hard time getting used to fingerpicks too, but now i feel they give me good control. I think you'll get used to them faster than you imagine though.
As far as tone is concerned, i sometimes want the bite from the picks and sometimes the mellow tone i get from my bare fingers.
I like having the choice.
Uffe |
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Fred Kinbom
From:
Berlin, Germany, via Stockholm, Sweden.
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Posted 13 Apr 2006 12:55 am
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Thanks everyone! I will keep my options open and hopefully get faster with those picks.
(Tack Uffe! Kul att se andra svenskar här!)
[translation: Thanks Uffe! Nice to see other Swedes here!] |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Øystein Røysi
From:
Trondheim, Norway
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Posted 20 Sep 2006 5:44 am
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Weird! Why didn't I see this before today...?
Well, it's really something I've been thinking about, too. I'm also a guitarist (both acoustic and electric), and I'm used to regular picks or bare fingers. So far I've only tried a couple of very standard fingerpicks, and haven't liked them at all. I feel I lose all control over the strings, and I feel I'm fumbling quite a bit with them.
I've thought about trying the PROPIK Fingertone picks suggested in this thread, but I haven't found them here up north. Guess I'll have to order them online.
I have also tried growing my fingernails, and actually I find that quite comfortable. I'm used to using all my fingers when fingerpicking guitar, and therefore I feel that only two picks limits me. However, I do like a thumb pick.It doesn't look very masculine with long nails, though...
Are there anyone else who would like to enlighten me about the Fingertones? Are they good for both electric and acoustic lap?
Sorry for going on!
Thanks in advance!
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Cheers,
Øystein
- Gold Tone Solid Spruce Weissenborn D / Low G / C+9
- National Dynamic A6th / C6th / Leavitt
- Fender SRV Strat
- Ayers Acoustic
- Koch Twintone II
[This message was edited by -Øystein Røysi on 20 September 2006 at 06:50 AM.] [This message was edited by -Øystein Røysi on 20 September 2006 at 06:52 AM.] |
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Randy Reeves
From:
LaCrosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2006 9:19 am
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after reading this thread I realized that I am a wimp.
as a long time guitar player using a flatpick and middle finger (sort of like merle Travis) I experienced pain, discomfort and a lose of connection to the strings when I put on fingerpicks.
sure, they were hand me down metal Dunlops. and yes, I didnt know the best manner of wearing them or adjusting them.
I tired and tried to use them.
but as I said, I am a wimp and went back to what Ive grown used to.
however, you all are convincing me to re attempt fingerpicks. I'll toss the Dunlop torture picks and look for a better brand; like plastic.
local guitar stores never seem to have a decent selection.
not trying to PO anybody...what is reccommened? and where can I find them? |
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Bill Manning
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2006 10:14 am
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I have tried every variation under the sun for fingerstyle playing...metal picks, plastic picks, bare fingers, natural nails, ping pong balls, crazy glue, drug store nail glue, acrylic nails, thumb picks, no thumb pick...you name it, I've tried it. I like the sound people get with bare fingers and I like the sound people get with fingerpicks. But neither of those options really worked for me--for me, it's gotta be professionally done acrylic nails. I keep em' long, hard, and thick.  It sort of splits the difference between the brightness/attack of fingerpicks and the mellowness of bare fingers. Sometimes I use a thumbpick, especially on a piece requiring fast double-stroke runs (and for that the Fred Kelly bumblebee has no peer, IMHO, YMMV), though I'm working on better developing that action and articulation with just my thumbnail. I play pickless lap steel as well, works for me. Professionally done acrylic nails are hard as rocks and stand up to vigorous, daily fingerstyling on heavy gauge steel/wound strings. Not as bright as metal fingerpicks, obviously, but they give you plenty of attack and volume. And I feel "closer" to the instrument than I do with picks. If you do go the fake nail route (and I'm happy I did) do NOT bother with nail products you buy at a typical drug store--they're crap (for this purpose). I'd recommend not doing it yourself. I go to a local nail salon (around these parts, they're all over the place) about every two weeks and they apply several coats of pro strength acrylic powder/pro strength glue mix to the nails, as long or short as I want them to be. Dries in seconds. Yeah, I get a few odd looks in business/public situations when people notice the nails on my right hand, but it's worth it. Yeah, you'll be the subject of some snickering and giggling at the nail salon, but it's not so bad--and for an extra $10, those Korean gals give a great back massage. I know what you're thinking: No, I don't have them apply color, and no, I don't get the pedicure or body wax, thank you!  [This message was edited by Bill Manning on 20 September 2006 at 11:16 AM.] |
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Øystein Røysi
From:
Trondheim, Norway
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Posted 20 Sep 2006 10:36 am
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Good grief, Bill! That's certanly taking it the extra mile... Just kidding! Glad you found what works for you!
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Cheers,
Øystein
- Gold Tone Solid Spruce Weissenborn D / Low G / C+9
- National Dynamic A6th / C6th / Leavitt
- Fender SRV Strat
- Ayers Acoustic
- Koch Twintone II
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