Replacement tuner buttons on old National?

David Trabue · Post by **David Trabue** » 12 Jun 2007 5:34 am

Hi,
The plastic tuners on an old National lap steel crumbled recently. Can the buttons be replaced or is it a matter of finding the entire tuner sets? (3 on a plate).
Thanks,
Dave
p.s. here's a pre-distintegration pic

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 12 Jun 2007 5:55 am

David,

Some good info on this in this recent thread:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=110995

I have ordered the ivoroid buttons from Stew Mac as I fear that I will have to replace my 1947 New Yorker's buttons soon, and I've got another one on the way to refurbish where the tuner buttons are gone.

Please keep us posted how you get on with this as I'm curious about the procedure, not having replaced tuner buttons before myself.

Cheers,

Fred

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 12 Jun 2007 7:34 am

I have used the ivoroid buttons from Stew-mac with very good results.
For my old Kay lap steel, I drilled the holes out to
9/16" with the correct depth. Then pressed the new ones on with a vise.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 12 Jun 2007 8:05 am

StewMac has tuner knob replacement Instructions on their site: Link to Stewart MacDonald.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 12 Jun 2007 8:06 am

Here's an article by Frank Ford on FRETS.COM regarding replacing plastic tuner buttons.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 12 Jun 2007 9:01 am

I've replaced quite a few. The white plastic are the easiest to do. A vise is necessary though. Heating the tuner shaft with a soldering iron makes the buttons go on OK. The ivoroid and black buttons are hard, and need to be reamed slightly to make a correct press-fit, or they will break when pressed.

Regards BILL

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 12 Jun 2007 9:34 am

I thought I'd show the work at hand for me. This lap steel is on the way:

Obviously in need of new buttons.

I wonder about the two metal buttons though? How on Earth would I remove those to have a matching set of all ivoroid buttons?

Then there's my 1947 New Yorker:

They are fine, but I wonder for how much longer? Like it was stated in the link Brad provided: "If it doesn't crumble when you try to tune it this time, it will next time."

So I ordered two whole sets plus a few to spare in case I mess some up. Epoxy has been advised for the ivoroid buttons. How to make the holes suitable size-wise in my virtually tool-free household I do not yet know. What would be a suitable non-power tool to aquire that is cheaper than paying a tech to do this?

Thanks!

Fred

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 12 Jun 2007 3:55 pm

Gryphon replaced one of mine on my '37. They didn't have any matches, so I've got one black one and 6 chrome ones. They did infuse the remaining chrome ones with CA to help keep them together.

I believe you remove the chrome ones with a pair of vise grips, to help break them apart as you twist them off.

Dwayne Martineau · Post by **Dwayne Martineau** » 13 Jun 2007 11:36 am

Stew-Mac. Definitely.

I had the same question about my National T8...
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/005815.html

Replaced the buttons, worked perfectly. It was cheap.

I bought the white buttons. They were a little too *new* looking, but they're wearing in.

•Dm

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 13 Jun 2007 3:11 pm

For that guitar with the mixed buttons, the easy way is Stewmac #4095 tuner set, with the classic white buttons. Not cheap, at 48 bucks, but likely a good set.
If you have a local music store, they may have a catalog with tuners you can order with the white classic oval buttons. You need the type for solid peghead.

Stewmac's white plastic buttons are only $1.73 each, good way to go for the guitar that may need them later.

Rockne Riddlebarger · Post by **Rockne Riddlebarger** » 13 Jun 2007 3:51 pm

I have replaced a lot of button with replacements available from Elderly Music. I suggest removing the tuners from the guitar before heating the shafts and installing the buttons...Good pickin' y'all!..Rockne

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 13 Jun 2007 7:19 pm

Yeah, Rockne is correct. Don't try replacing knobs with the tuners on the guitar. Like mentioned above, a vise is ideal to push them on. If you use a vise, make sure to put some tape on the jaws to prevent marring the new knobs.

William Clark · Post by **William Clark** » 21 Jun 2007 9:00 pm

If you don't want to replace the plastic, you could try coating the original buttons in Super Glue. I did this on a Champion lap steel I purchased recently and they seem to be holding well. I don't know how much longer they will last but they seem to be holding okay for now.

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 9 Jul 2007 12:57 pm

Thanks everyone for all the info!

I have now replaced the buttons on the 1941 National New Yorker lap steel with new ivoroid buttons from Stewart-MacDonald.

This is what the tuners looked like when I got this steel:

I used a soldering iron to heat the "homemade" metal replacement button, that a previous owner had added, enough to wiggle it off the shaft. The two remaining original metal buttons I heated and broke them - gently

- with a hammer (I don't have a vise or many other tools for that matter

). They came off the shafts leaving them completely clean and as-new.

I used a drill with a 1.5 mm drill bit to enlarge the holes in the replacement buttons just sufficiently to press them onto the shafts (that are equipped with small metal "wings"). I had to put in quite an effort to get them on, using a hammer - again gently! - with a piece of rubber (actually, the rubber coated handle of a pair of pliers

) in between to protect the buttons from denting. I only broke one button in the process (I had gotten a few spare ones just in case) and these buttons fit so tightly on the shafts that the only way to remove them would be to break them. No need to use glue, to my surprise! Here is the result:

Of course, the way I did it is not recommended - it was just me making do with my limited supply of tools. And, yes - I did remove the tuners from the guitar!

Thanks again everyone from sharing your knowledge so generously!

Cheers,

Fred