Pick Blocking

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Jun 2007 4:57 am

I have the Joe Wright video but there's not more than a casual mention of using a fingertip beyond the bar to block. I watchd the Youtube video and that's the motion I've seen a couple of times; but the few players I've seen live over the years didn't do that, and it still seems like a really odd extra motion, especially to block one string. Again, it's not something in Winnie's book or any of the other stuff I've read. Maybe it makes more sense if you play 10-string E9 with chromatics, which I don't.

LATE EDIT - yesterday I watched the "left and right hands combined" video closely for the first time (There is great material in these videos, but IMO it could be presented in 5 minutes per video - things get awfully redundant IMO) - There is a short portion where Joe talks about the "in and out" bar movement and lightly touches (pun intended) on blocking with the fingertip - but it seems he suggests it more as a way of keeping the right and left hands working together - like it helps eliminate some thought process once you get used to it. THAT makes sense - I can see why it would be used that way. Unfortunately, not with the bar I use due to the weight, but those using a 7/8" bar would likely not have a big problem doing it.

As far as the hand position:

try rotating your hand counter-clockwise a bit. It may feel a little odd, but it works great.

It's not that it feels odd - turned that far there's no way to pick with the fingers. At least with my hand, it puts them in almost a "baseball grip" - and as I mentioned, the only picking motion would be a backwards "push" with a pick wrapped all the way around the fingertip.

I appreciate the suggestions, but it looks like after 3 decades of dobro, banjo and some lap steel my right hand is not going to change to an awkward picking position - I'll just have to do the limited amount of blocking I'm able to.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 4 Jun 2007 8:06 am

Jim, this right hand blocking issue is not simple, as you well know. BTW, I'm trying to explain what I've learned over the last 35+ years playing steel, not that my version is the bible, or the only way to do it right. I never had anyone to teach me, and I hate to see others beating their heads against the wall trying to figure this stuff out, like I did. I'm just offering what I know to those who would like to try my approach.

There are many factors that are at play here. Hand position is one of them. Others are pick blade bend, finger curvature, the angle the pick strikes the string, muscle memory, and so on.

When the right hand is in the general 45 degree configuration, the picking fingers will seem to extend toward the strings...as if reaching for them. The index finger will lie in a slight curve, and the second finger in a slightly tighter curve. The amount of curve varies with each player, but it should never be claw-like. It has to be relaxed. A relaxed right hand can play better, and faster, than a tense one.

The pick blade should be bent to accomodate the finger's position. If that means wrapping it around the fingertip, or having it point more straight out, so be it. Start with a good hand position then adjust the picks to that. And, yes, the pick motion will be more towards you, more or less.

Try this experiment...position your hand in the 45 degree configuration above the strings, so as not to block any strings. Now, pick only one string with your second finger and don't block it...just pick it. If you did it right, only your finger moved...your hand stayed motionless. If you moved your hand to pick the string, you are not only wasting motion, but you are changing your hand's reference point in relationship to the strings and you will have a hard time with finger accuracy. The hand must stay as motionless as possible, it's your reference point...the finger does all the work of picking the string. The hand only needs to move to palm block the note (slight up and down motion), to change to another string (forward or back motion), or to pick a chord (forward or back to maintain good overall hand position).

The hand, from the base of the fingers and thumb, to the wrist, is the foundation of right hand technique. From that foundation, your thumb and fingers interact with the strings. If that foundation randomly shifts around, twists to a different angle, or bounces too much, you'll have a hard time quickly locating strings and forming chord grips. Ever have a hard time playing those fast runs, or chord grips? It's possibly because your foundation is shifting around and throwing your reference off.

Blocking seems to be a rather individualistic procedure. There are myriad variations that seem to work. I tend to follow BE and Jeff's version because it works well for me...not that I'm an authority at all...I just understand it. I learned from watching them DO it, not from hearing how they do it. If you work on the hand position, the blocking will be easier to develop.

Everything depends upon having good, relaxed, hand configurations (right AND left)...picking tone, accuracy, speed, chording, consistent playing, intonation, blocking, etc. If your hands tense up, you loose control.

And remember, stay relaxed, keep those elbows down!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Jun 2007 8:12 am

If you want to play the steel with any accuracy or tone it is very important to be able to move the bar over only the strings you currently want to resonate. To hold the bar over all 10 strings is like trying to steer a car by placing both entire forarms on your steering wheel at all times and then leaning the direction you want to turn. Its a real waste of energy and doesn't actually work.
If I get a new student that still holds his bar over all the strings I have them move the bar across the neck as they play instead. The reaction is always "Wow, that is way more easy, solves 3 or 4 problems and sounds better instantly".

The bar is not just a big movable capo.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Jun 2007 8:26 am

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Jun 2007 7:48 pm

Regarding moving just a finger vs the hand - no, I don't move my whole hand. Learned that long ago. On 6-string I would hybrid pick, with a flatpick and the middle and ring fingertips or nails - that requires economy of movement or you're dead. So does chromatic banjo, where if your fingers start flying you are playing the song 90-degrees out of whack in seconds.

Maybe pics will help:

The second one is a little off - my thumb's usually straighter, but I was tangling shootingthe picture one-handed. In both, my palm is lightly touching the 8th string (on my GFI it would be on the 10th). In order to put the palm on, say, strings 4,3,2 or 1 so much motion is required because of the curve at the *back* of my palm (somewhat visible in pic #1) that the picks come WAY off the strings. I have the Wright videos plus others, books etc - I understand the concept very well. It just doesn't physically operate that way with the shape of my hand (which I have compared with a couple steel players, and there's quite a difference - my left pinky has a permanent 90-degree bend from several basketball breaks and can't be straightened or curled, which is a large part of it - that finger hits the guitar long before any part of my hand gets close to the strings).

If you look at the pick position, I'm pretty straight-down from the middle knuckle - the "claw" grip where the hand is all curled in, picks wrapped around the tips, and the picking motion a backwards push towards the body isn't how I fingerpick, and it's not going to change after this many years of dobro/banjo etc. I think, as I said, I'll just have to play how I play and not worry about it - I've watched Bobbe Seymour and Sneaky on videos, both doing very little palm blocking - Sneaky's right hand was moving all over as well. Same goes for the "other" horizontal bar movement - for me it doesn't seem to matter, and when you're using a 1-pound bar it's almost completely impossible to do anyway if you plan on playing in tune on the lower strings. Some people might say it's essential - but *nothing* is "essential" - many players have either had to break rules for physical reasons or because they just found another way to play. For me that movement seems ot have no purpose in MY playing...so yes, I have an 8-string capo.

Now, if I was playing traditional country stuff on an E9 guitar it might be a little tough, but still possible to play without palm blocking or the other bar movement (still don't know what to call it). I really don't know. But I'm playing mostly an 8-string, using a huge bar, and playing anything but traditional country (even on my GFI I'm using a strange, but perfectly viable B6 copedent). Not playing choppy fast runs, I guess I don't really even notice it until see a thread about it and wonder again if I'm not doing something right - but from what I'm reading, everything is positioned right (unless that "claw" grip is the rule, which it really doesn't seem to be) and it's a "hand construction" (or demolition!) problem.

So I just make do and don't worry about it. My playing seems to sound alright (from what others have said), so my mix of pick blocking, a limited amount of palm blocking on lower strings, and (naughty!) bar lifts seems just fine.

Same with the bar hand. Other steel players have been at jams I've played at, and I've never heard a "you're covering too many strings" comment.

James, I agree the Sweetheart stuff is pretty cool, and I do end up playing those songs - but when I do I don't play copies of those breaks, I play my own twists combined with Sneaky's versions, since I'm playing the same B6. As far as Cage's - not my favorite; that kind of blocking sounds SO choppy I just can't take it. My thing is more like Sneaky's playing on Jackson Brown's version of Take it Easy, where everything is seamless and flowing...when I'm not playing Mr. Moto or Aqualung. Remember I'm not playing the same songs or style as 99% of the forum members. That's a seperate, but important factor.

As far as teachers, I've asked the local ones. They apparently don't want anyone not playing E9 and following a canned course or something, because I've asked for technique lesson info and gotten zip.

Now if I admit I don't usually use a volume control because with 8-10 pedals I have to two-foot, I'll just be a complete outcast...again...

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Jun 2007 8:15 pm

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Jun 2007 8:48 pm

Well, let's see - actually, my elbow is touching my side. When you say "flat with your hand" - flat in relationship to what? Now I'm confused - everyone's saying "45 degree angle" but now James, you're saying to put it at a 90-degree angle? If I do that, my thumb is two inches in front of my fingers (toward the peghead) and it's absolutely impossible to pick any adjacent strings - not to mention it forces my hand into that "claw" position, rendering my fingers 100% inoperative.

"Roll your hand 45 degrees" - in relationship to the vertical plane? Horizontal? "Rolling" seems to mean turning it back so the palm is on the strings - but if by "rolling" you mean turning it horizontally so it crosses the strings at a 45-degree angle, it actually does and it's just the camera angle that's odd. For example, if I move the whole hand towards the peghead (not altering the angle at all) and have the center of the back of the palm resting on the 15th fret dead center (between the 4th and 5th strings), if I point my middle finger straight out it's almost at the 7th fret of the front neck Make sense? It's an almost dead-on 45-degree angle.

It's probably a slightly weird camera angle from trying to take it myself. And at that 45-degree angle the pinky stops my hand cold before I can get the palm to the higher strings - and there's no flesh even close to them.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Jun 2007 4:53 am

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Jun 2007 5:53 am

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Jun 2007 12:50 pm

Your description in the second-to-last post clarified things. Now I know what you mean, and actually that "parallel to the pickup" position is exactly where my little finger and hand shape come into play and prevent palm blocking without excessive movement. It also forces the thumb (for me) into a position where it's impossible to play strings adjacent to those played by the fingers; also that puts the fingers in that curled position that seems to work for some, but not all.

When my hand is at a 45-degree angle across the strings, I have much more freedom of movement with the thumb/fingers, can pick cleanly, and palm-block on at least a few lower strings. It simply appears that my combo of palm/pick/bar lift blocking is OK and works for me - I just wanted to see if there was something I was doing "wrong" - and it doesn't look like it (hand shape isn't "wrong" - it just "is"). I guess the bar covering all the strings could be debated as "wrong" - but I've seen too many good players do it to accept that *not* doing it is "wrong". Plus, as mentioned the sheer weight of my bar makes that motion pretty impractical.

But I am curious - does that "in and out" bar motion have to do with anything other than blocking a string with a finger beyond the bar tip? It seems like a really difficult and strange motion, and doesn't seem like it would be worth it for that one purpose (what I'm basically saying - no offense meant to anyone - is that it makes absolutely no sense to me and just looks weird).

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Jun 2007 2:23 pm

Moon in Alaska · Post by **Moon in Alaska** » 5 Jun 2007 2:33 pm

Jim.....
That method has several advantages.If you only cover the highest string that you are playing at a given moment,when you move the bar, there is less noise from the bar.
Try pushing up your volune pedal to a high volume. Then
only cover the 10th and 9th strings with the bar, slide up a few frets and observe the noise generated.
Now place the bar on all 10 strings and slide the bar. You will see a BIG difference in bar noise.
Most players palm block the bottom 3 or 4 strings all the time,except when they are playing them. Just this lowers the bar noise greatly.
I both palm block, pick block, block with my middle finger extended out from the bar end.
If you watch John Hughey play, he is constantly moving the bar in and out, only covering the highest string he is using. It is like every thing else...at first it seems real hard, but with pratice it become automatic.

Good luck
Moon

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 5 Jun 2007 2:39 pm

Jim, I'm not sure where I picked this up, might have been Joe Wright, but in my first few weeks and months of learning steel I understood the "in and out" bar motion to be as much to do with assisting the tracking of the right hand. Whether you use two or three fingerpicks, the rightmost one (looking at the back of your hand) is normally 'assigned' to the topmost string being played. You can mentally lock that picking finger to the nose of the bar, moving left and right hand "in and out" in tandem. This allows you to keep your eyes fixed on the bar but have a better awareness of which strings you are poised to pluck. Once you advance beyond having trouble hitting the right string, the method is either a waste of energy or an additional blocking technique depending on your point of view. I found it very useful in the very beginning and continue to benefit from the blocking part of it, although I haven't got it completely clean. I think you are probably passed getting the tracking benefit.

On the blocking side, it does help with certain licks but as Moon describes, mainly it cuts down on a lot of bar noise, as does good blocking with the left thumb on the lower strings. Sometimes you don't notice a lot of bar noise until you record yourself. Again your milage will vary and maybe noise is not an issue with your particular XL-size bar.

My only comment on palm blocking is, there are a couple of Lloyd's licks on "One Hundred Years From Now", yes, the really choppy ones, that are just plain impossible without traditional palm blocking and NEAR impossible with it! As you say, if you don't want to play choppy licks, don't worry about it. But if you do, James' excellent "karate chop" description is the only way to go.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Jun 2007 3:05 pm

Johnny Baldwin · Post by **Johnny Baldwin** » 5 Jun 2007 5:56 pm

Jim:

That "in/out" bar motion across the strings you spoke of was explained to me by my first instructor. When the bar remains on strings that you are NOT picking they will pick up "some" vibration from the adjoining strings you are trying to play. This will result in overtones (of the strings you are not picking)and muddle the clean sound of individual notes. Make sense?
Now for a novel idea to your inability to palm block the higher register of strings (5,4,3,2,1,).
Years ago I was leaving Blackie Taylor's dusty 'ol shop in Riverside when an old steeler drove up in a dilapadated car. We started talking about PSG and he asked me if I had any questions he could help me with. I told him I was having the darnest time palm blocking because the edge of my right hand just seem to never rest close enough to the strings (kinda like what you described as the curvature of your hand). He then said to me..."on the way home stop at the hardware store and get a roll of 1/4" adhesive backed foam weather stripping (the kind you put around doors and windows)." He continued, "cut a 4" piece of that stripping and stick it on the edge of your palm (don't worry it will stay put)." Now, he said, "go home and palm block for a week with that weather stripping on the edge of your palm." "At the end of the week take it off, relax and play." Believe it or not in one week I didn't need that piece of stripping on my palm. It was almost like it broke a mental block I had to fight that palm movement and allow me to correctly block. Weird thing about it, a couple months later I asked Blackie who that old steeler was, and Blackie said he didn't recall anyone coming into the shop after my late afternoon visit that day. Hmmmm....

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Jun 2007 8:13 pm

Oddly, I already tried a piece of foam, knowing the shape of my hand (also being an old Fender Jaguar player familiar with string mutes). It was horribly distracting and restrictive and didn't seem to have any positive result.

As far as overtones, bar nose etc - I am pickin gup nothing noticable, whether playing my old Fenders of GFI Ultra. It may be that huge bar of Sneaky's I use, and maybe that's why he seemed to play with the whole bar as well. As I mentioned earlier, the weight also makes it totally impractical to play with it covering just a couple of strings, or moving it around like that, which I have tried - it's not hard to do, just ineffectual and a waste..for me. I don't mean that others shouldn't do it with a traditional setup if it's the accepted norm - but I'm not playing a traditional setup.

I'm also not trying to copy Lloyd's licks. Or even Sneaky's for that matter. Back in my 6-string days, I rarely copied anyone - I borrowed bits and pieces, but I don't think I ever did a note-for note clone of anyone's playing, ever. To me, that's *their* music. I'd rather do my own take on something. Stylistically my guitar stuff would sound like Clarence White much of the time, but there would not be a single copied solo - I went more for the feel and timing than trying to clone anything. I figure if somebody has already done something really well, all you can do is a not-as-good imitation of it. Not exactly a vary creative approach. I'd rather come in from left field and play what fits the music, but based on my brain, not someone else's.

OK, off the soapbox.

So I don't seem to have noise or overtone problems keeping the bar on the strings(even recorded with very sensitive mics), I tend to play in a more flowing way that doesn't need quick, staccato notes, my hands are relaxed and not cramped or oddly contorted, and I mix up all kinds of blocking, with palm blocking being the least used (except for that finger-beyond-the-bar, which is never used) because of physical traits more than anything else.

I really just wanted to see if there was something I was missing about the palm-blocking thing; but no, I had it right, it just doesn't work when the parts don't fit. So you make adjustments and play what works with your limitations.

Django did OK. So did Jerry Garcia with a missing finger (oh, no - I mentioned Garcia - will the thread now degrade into a discussion of what makes up a "real" steel player...hehehe?)

I think I'll survive. I do thank everyone for the suggestions, though.

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 6 Jun 2007 1:09 am

Jim Sliff,
I think you are confusing basic playing techniques with musicianship. To my ear, Sneaky Pete had complete mastery of basic techniques, particularly blocking. For proof, listen to: "The Flying Burrito Brothers - Six Days on the Road" at
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uQMJUhlxR3M& ... ed&search=
That's a whole lot of good West Coast-style blocking going on.

Since you're a big fan of Sneaky Pete's, watch this video: "Flying Burrito Brothers - Christine's Tune" at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BITiY8M_oDo& ... ed&search=

While most of the closeups of Sneaky's hands are only during the fuzz-tone solos, it looks and sounds to me like he is both palm-blocking and pick-blocking. He was probably influenced by two other Southern California players- Ralph Mooney (mostly pick-blocking) and Brumley (palm-blocking).
However he was doing his blocking, you can tell that Sneaky had mastered basic blocking techniques. Listen at 1:22 to 1:31 and 2:08 to 2:19; his notes are cleanly blocked and do not run together.

The point is that Sneaky Pete used the same basic blocking techniques used by Mooney, Brumley, Hal Rugg, Buddy Charlton or any other steel player you can see on Youtube. It was Sneaky's fantastic creativity and musicianship that made him so unique, not disregarding basic technique. Just as painters must first master basic brush techniques before dazzling the world with their creativity, so must musicians.

Sneaky's magic was in his choice of notes and musical approach, not inventing a new basic technique like blocking. I'm not talking about "copying licks" but the basics needed to play well. Basic techniques are part of the foundation for creativity, not a preventer of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim, your last post sounds like you are giving up on learning blocking techniques. If so, don't read any further.

If you really do want to improve your blocking technique, here are three simple suggestions for you. The good news: You do not need to attach any foam-rubber to your hand.

In a nutshell-- you must give up your banjo habits.

From your photos, it looks like you are trying to use the same hand position, shape, and picks to play steel one would use for playing the banjo. This will make it difficult, if not impossible, for you to ever block well.

Three simple suggestions:
1) Position your right hand on top of the strings, not next to them.
I do not recommend bracing your little finger on the body of the steel as you are doing in the photos. That works well for playing the banjo, but puts your hand in a very poor position to do any blocking on steel. Your hand should rest on top of the strings on the steel to block properly, not next to it. This will free up your hand to palm-block or pick-block properly. Some players (like Joe Wright, Sneaky Pete) use the first string to locate their "home" position, not by bracing against it, but by touching it very lightly with their little finger. You can see Sneaky returning to his first string "home position" with his little finger at closeups 1:05 to 1:14, 1:52 to 2:01, and 2:45 to 2:54 in "Christine's Tune".

2) Change the shape of your right hand to gain freedom of motion.
As some people have described it, it should look like you have an invisible tennis ball in your hand. This relaxed, rounded shape gives you the most freedom of motion. Your hand shape in the photos is not rounded, it is shaped for banjo-playing. The hand-shape you are using limits your freedom of motion and this will not allow you to block effectively on steel. Notice how relaxed and open Sneaky's hands are in the closeups noted above, then compare it with the photos of your hands. "Palm-blocking" doesn't literally mean to use only one's palm to block. It appears in those closeups in "Christine's Tune" that Sneaky is curling his ring finger under his palm for blocking. Some players curl their little finger under instead.

3) Re-shape your picks to play steel.
Like you, I also play banjo. When playing steel guitar, I use a different set of picks that are curved more around my fingers. This is because one must position one's hand on the steel very differently than on the banjo. Look at 1:10 to 1:16 and 1:52 in "Christine's Tune" to see how much Sneaky curves his picks. Now compare that to your photos.

I hope this is helpful.

Dave

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 6 Jun 2007 6:14 am

Of course, the Christine's Tune video is not an actual live performance, and the footage of Sneaky's hands is unrelated to the music being played over it. But good job finding closeups of his playing technique anyway! (I do notice that, as Jim says, he kept the bar over all the strings.)

Just adding to what many have referred to as the ball grip hand position, when I was first starting out on steel a friend who was taking lessons from Buddy Charleton gave me a ping-pong ball and told me Charleton said to actually try to practice while holding the ball to form the habit of the "right" hand position.

That said, everyone's hands are so different that there really can't be only one "right" way to play. Whatever (honestly assessed) works is right!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Jun 2007 10:18 am

I noticed Sneaky's right hand in the video is pretty "loose" - not "finger only" movement as one poster previously suggested was preferable. His picks do seem to be wrapped around the fingertips, but he plays in a sort of "stabbing" style with the fingers. Unfortunately that particular video is hard to decipher, because as Brint noted (and many have mentioned before) it's unrelated to the song.

I think the pictures I posted really threw a lot of things off. I'll try to redo them tonight if I get time, because the reactions to them are based on some assumptions of how the pictures look - and those assumptions don't match my real hand position for the most part. Just lousy camera angles, I think. My little finger is usually in that same "home base" position as others, and really the only real issue is the huge gap between palm and strings due to hand/finger shape and mobility (i.e. the finger's inability to bend much in either direction).

It'll make sense with better pictures. But as far as wrapping the picks and curling my hand up, it's been tried and it's not going to end up going that way - my fingerpicking is going to be pretty consistent between dobro, lap steel and pedal steel (I can't play banjo any longer, as some know, because of my left hand problems). The "claw" approach doesn't work - for me. Might partially be because my hands are pretty darned big - that's one reason string spacing is so critical to me, with my Fenders and GFI being fine, but the couple of Shobuds and my MSA Classic being really squeezed and hard to play.

Also, there seems to be some assumption now that I don't block at all, which is not correct - it's just that most of it is pick blocking, because I CAN do that. And I can do some palm blocking, just not on the higher strings and not playing fast stuff, as anyplace but the lower 2-3 strings it requires too much movement to make up for the gap between my particular hand and strings.

I'm also not concerned with copping licks or playing particularly fast, so some technique things - especially stuff tuned towards "speed picking" - are completely unimportant to me. Where some guys will be copying a Paul Franklin 9-zillion mph lick to fill 2 bars, I'll have a Leslie swirl and some distortion going and play 3 notes. The other things to keep in mind are 1) I don't play traditional country - about the only "country" things I play are Byrds, Burritos and some Ronstadt stuff (other than that I'm working on blues rock and surf music - and on the "country" things I don't copy many licks), and 2) I'm normally playing an 8-string, B6 8+2 that is a sort of reversed-universal setup; a 6th tuning with primarily E9 type changes and no chromatic strings. Connect all that with a 50-year-old, 1-pound, 1 1/4" tapered bar and the playing field is a little different.

Dave Barbaree · Post by **Dave Barbaree** » 6 Jun 2007 3:12 pm

Hey all, just got back from vacation and got a chance to look through all of these new posts. Just wanted to thank you all for your detailed responses. This has really been a great help and I think a lot of my questions have been answered. I actually seem to be getting a hang of some basic palm blocking thanks to these responses. It also seems like everyone agrees that the Joe Wright DVDs are a good learning tool for this subject. If there is anyone who has any used copies of these DVDs for sale please let me know. I'd really like to check them out but unfortunately I can't afford to buy them from his site right now. Thanks again....

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 6 Jun 2007 9:57 pm

Like Mr. Sliff, I'm coming from a long-time life of guitar, dobro, and banjo playing. I play banjo and dobro with finferpicks, but I play steel with the nails on my right hand. Whatever blocking takes place, happens so naturally, I really don't pay much attention. It's there, and isn't that all that really matters? As far as the middle finger on my left hand, it's BEHIND the bar---left over from the dobro days. I think blocking on steel guitar is a lot like muting a distorted electric 6-string. One day, you just notice that it's happening.
JIM, I'LL NEVER FORGIVE YOU!!!!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Jun 2007 5:10 am

As far as the middle finger on my left hand, it's BEHIND the bar

Same here - isn't that where it is with everybody?

Did not get a chance to do new pictures...might tonight. As Steve says, though, a lot of it just happens without thinking. I don't notice a "problem" unless I try to play things I don't normally play anyway - choppy lines and fast runs. So it's really not a problem - like I said earlier, I was just curious if there was something I was missing, and from the responses it appears I understand the various methods of blocking and picking positions, and have settled on what works for me.

Just for fun, for a while last night I tried bending some picks over my fingertips and trying the "claw" position again. It forced my elbow out (I could not pick at all with it held against my body no matter what hand angle I used) and created a strain on my right shoulder and neck - not good. Might have something to do with the multiple breaks/sets on the 5th metacarpal none, and the fact it's abnormally shaped as well (it's the one at the back of the palm). Went back to my normal picks/position, and everthing felt fine again.

I do not recommend bracing your little finger on the body of the steel as you are doing in the photos.

That's one thing that unfortunately can't be changed. That little dude is so permanently bent and frozen it can't straighten out nor can it fold under - so no matter how I hold my hand, when the hand rotates to block the finger works like a stop - that's one thing I confirmed last night.

I'll still try to post accurate pics just for discussion purposes - but I am reminded of a couple things - one was watching Tut Taylor play Dobro, holding the bar in a "pincer" position between his fingers with no hand/string contact behind the bar. Totally "wrong", yet he's one of the all-time greats. The second was Sneaky telling me on more than one occasion "you can listen to what I do and try to and try to get the same general sound, but don't watch me and copy anything - everything I do is wrong!"

And I better not even get into not using a volume pedal......

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 7 Jun 2007 5:30 am

duplicate post, see below

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 7 Jun 2007 5:32 am

Jim, it's too bad you never had the chance to attend a Jeff Newman seminiar, if you could have, it would have been very interesting to watch Jeff "housebreak" you. Seriously, I did attend one of Jeff's weekend seminars in the early '80s, wearing Dunlop pics, like the ones in your pictures. He watched me for a minute, then handed me a set of his picks, and told me to get rid of the Dunlops. His picks were designed to put the hand in the correct position to block. It's actually really simple, just like it's been explained above by several others. It's not the only way that works, but I believe that there is so much proof that these ideas work and eliminate much trial and error for a new player, that it seems foolish not to take the time to learn how to do it.

Here is a picture of my hand, although I probably extend my little finger at least 50% of the time. notice that the edge of the hand is touching the strings, while all the picks also contact the strings. This is the basic starting position. It works for me, a probably thousands of other players.

Good luck Jim, although I have a hard time understanding why you seem to make things more difficult then they need to be.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Jun 2007 12:11 pm

Playing should be comfortable. I don't go along with the "45-degree" stuff as everyone's physiology is a little bit different. If you study famous players, there's all sorts of hand and arm angles, as well as hand positions. Find what's comfortable for you, and stay with it as long as it doesn't have any negative effects. I don't play with my right arm against my body, I don't play with my navel at any particular fret, and my wrist is almost straight (at the same angle as my arm), which is probably closer to 20-degrees from the perpendicular.

Gain insight and advice on technique from anywhere you can, but remember...there are no hard-fast rules for how you do it. If I played with some of the hand positions pictured, I'd be cramped up in an hour, so I use a position that's as close to natural as possible, not unlike my hand and arm position when I'm writing at a desk. Everybody does it a little different...there is no right or wrong.