Pick Blocking

[Dave Barbaree]

Hey all, I'm new to the forum and have been playing pedal steel for almost two years now. I have recently been getting more serious about my playing and have been working/struggling a lot with blocking. This has really been my main frustration with the instrument thus far. The only way I seem to be able to block efficiently is with pick blocking. I can't seem to get the palm blocking going for the life of me. I recently read in a Paul Franklin interview that he only blocks with his picks. Any thoughts on blocking with picks only? Will I be ok doing this? I guess I'm wondering how all of you block - pick or palm? If both, which do you lean to more? Thanks a lot.......

[Micky Byrne]

Hi Dave, just count your blessings that you have learned to pick block as "YOUR" natural way to block. Many find that difficult. Absoulutely no problem with that at all.....just listen to practically all the recordings these days, most you hear are pick blockers. It would be worth your while to learn a little palm blocking, or with your fingers curled under. Both techniques have their place in playing. You'll probably find palm blocking easier to master than those that try the opposite. I use pick blocking most but a little palm when needed. Keep at it

Micky Byrne England Carter and Sho-Bud universals www.mickybyrne.com

[A. J. Schobert]

Dave I think you would have to ask yourself "how does it sound out of the amp?" Nobody knows how you muted the strings, for all I know you could have your pet cat helping you!I use booth palm and pick blocking, I heard there is like 5 different styles to block and one of them is bound to work for you. I would love to know what the other 3 styles are.

[Jack Stoner]

I now do both, but I started out with palm blocking. But I had a helluva time with it until George Lewis (who was working at Sho-Bud at the time) showed me how to do it. About a month's worth of practice after he showed me and I started to get it. After that it was just practice. You probably need someone to show you how to do it, rather than "telling" you. Probably one of the Jeff Newman Videos is focused on palm blocking.

I started adding pick blocking after I attended a Jeff Newman/Paul Franklin seminar in Kansas City Mo in the early 80's and then a Joe Wright "seminar" in the Sierra Room at one of the ISGC's in the late 80's.

[Mike Wheeler]

Jack is right...the best way is to have someone show you how it's done. But until then, here's some food for thought.

Position your hands on your steel as if to start playing. First, look at your bar hand. Your second finger should extend past the tip of the bar so as to mute a string or two past the tip of the bar. Your thumb should be in such a position that you can drop it onto the strings, near the bottom, to mute strings there, if needed. You should be holding the bar securely, but retaining enough flexibility in the grip that you can turn it (angle it) at will.

Now the right hand. It should be relaxed and sitting at aproximately a 45 degree angle to the strings. Now place your picks on the strings as if to play a chord. As you pick the chord with your fingers, raise your whole hand straight up a little, to allow the strings to ring. If you picked the strings with your fingers, they will have retracted towards your hand in a slight clawing kind of motion, leaving your palm closer to the strings than your picks. Now if you drop your hand to pick another chord, your palm should touch the strings first, muting them, then the picks can pick the strings again. That's palm blocking. It applies to chords or single string picking. Of course, for single string work it can be slow bouncing your palm up and down. That's where pick blocking comes into play.

A good player will need to use most, or all, the blocking methods at various times as the situations dictates. So, learn all you can
(but not necessarily all at once). They will come in handy.

I hope this helps, and made sense. If not, PM me and I'll try to clarify things.

Other guys will probably chime in with ideas, too. This explanation is just intended to give you some direction until you can find a live player/teacher. Everyone employs slight variations, these are just what I use.

Good luck, and keep pickin'. It does get easier the more you practice.

[John Sluszny]

Very good explanation !

[Bryan Daste]

I learned how to palm block from Larry Behm and from the Winnie Winston book, which just refined what Larry showed me. There are a few simple exercises and songs in the Winston book that are great for palm blocking. Highly recommended!

[Donny Hinson]

Quite simply, you need both techniques, and here's why. Pick blocking works fine on single notes and chords played fairly fast and hard, but it doesn't work that well for very soft and slow passages. In addition, the "thumb-sweep" for fat chords is a very important technique, and pick blocking won't work there, either.

If you want to be a well-rounded and versatile player, you gotta do both. Learning palm-blocking is very easy if you can pick-block...just play without using any pick-blocking or lifting the bar, and I guarantee you'll be palm-blocking in a few minutes!

Of course, it'll help to remember your right hand (palm) should be resting on the strings to start with, and should be lifted only when necessary.

[Dave Barbaree]

Thanks a lot for the responses guys. Never thought of using the bar hand for blocking as well. I will definitely try that. I guess the hardest part of palm blocking for me has been finding a comfortable place for my ring and pinky fingers of my picking hand. I know some leave them extended and others leave them curled under. Seems like when I try either one there's a gap for certain strings that I can't quite block. Is this where the 45 degree angle thing comes into play? Do you mean the forearm is perpendicular to the pedal steel and the hand curves 45 degrees left to give you a flatter palm area? Seems like when I do this the picks hit the strings at an awkward angle. Ahhhh..confusing stuff. Anyway, sorry to be getting so technical, I just really want to get this technique down without developing any bad habits. Thanks.....

[Moon in Alaska]

Dave, the 45 degree is just the angle of your hand in the vertical plane... In other words, the right side of your right hand is sitting on the strings, the left side of that hand is a couple of inches up, the hand is about 45 degrees. I read somewhere, Your hand will look like you are grasping a golf ball.
I hope this helps.
Moon

[Mike Wheeler]

Moon is correct, IMHO, about the 45 degree hand angle. Just lay you right forearm, relaxed, directly in front of you on a table and you'll see your hand naturally turned to the right about 45 degrees. That's the angle I was refering to.

OK Dave, here's a little more info. First, make sure you are seated at your steel so that your body is centered on approximately the 15th fret. This will vary depending on your physical size, but centering somewhere around the 15th fret places your body in a position that allows your right forearm to comfortably lay perpendicular to the strings in front of the pickup, with your elbow hanging straight down (don't allow that elbow to creep away from your side).

As far as the angle to turn the hand in the horizontal plane (that means...with the forearm on the table again, turn your hand slightly to the left, not up or down, just turn it to the left a little )...

Your picks should be positioned so that they are pretty much centered around the string directly below your index finger's first knuckle (the palm end of the finger). So, that usually means a slight hand rotation counter-clockwise, (to the left, as described above).

Another way to visualize it, is to look at your forearm, wrist and hand. They should lay in a pretty straight line from elbow to first knuckle. Your fingers should be comfortably extended towards the strings, and bent a little...not straight, and not curved into a tight "C" shape. Your thumb should be straight and point to the left about 45 degrees, more or less, from the line of your forearm, but again, not stiff.

When you pick the strings, your fingers and thumb should do most of the work, not your whole hand. The right hand should be nearly motionless, not jumping up and down wildly...except for just enough to clear the palm, and to again mute the strings. To pick different strings, move the whole hand forward or back across the strings, so that your hand remains in the proper position. Don't reach with the fingers if you can avoid it, move the whole hand.

The overriding factor is that your hand remain relaxed, but in a properly configured position that will allow the most flexibility in picking single notes, chords and strums. The above description may seem awkward at first, which is to be expected. You have to train your hands just like you have to train your feet and knees. If you spend the time to learn good hand position, it will serve you well for the rest of your playing life.

Again, this is how I learned hand position, and it works very well for me. As you progress, you may find that variations are necessary. That's fine. Do what works best for you. This is just one starting point.

[Larry Weaver]

I'll totally agree with what the guys are saying about needing both techniques. I learned palm blocking first, and now I'm slowly learning pick blocking. The more I play, the more I realize just how much one does indeed need to use both in different situations.

I learned palm blocking at a Jeff Newman Boot Camp way back in the late 70's. I'll second what Jack said, and very highly recommend one of Jeff's tapes. He was the best in the biz imho for teaching palm blocking.

-LarryW

[Buck Dilly]

I block both ways. Pickblocking did not come naturally to me. I had to be convinced (Joe Wright seminar) and then slow down to a crawl and develop good, solid, accurate technique (Joe Wright's written materials). I did so using a systematic approach. Joe Wright's technical bundle will help with this. I understand that there are others out there as well. I highly recommend attending one of his seminars. That is where I became convinced it would help my playing. What he stated was (I will paraphrase): "If you cannot play one note with one finger perfectly, you will never be able to execute complete phrases". I agree with that logic. Be patient, it will come. Ultimately there are no absolutely right or wrong ways to play, just different ways. The only absolute is that sloppy technique sped up is still sloppy.

[Brandon Ordoyne]

I pick block 95% of the time. I seem to get more speed with it, rather than palm blocking. But at some point in a ride or lick I will palm block.

[James Morehead]

[Mark Vinbury]

I posted this in another thread but think it might be helpful here also.
For those visual learners-- there is a lot of great blocking info ,pick and palm, to be gleaned from the 2005 SUPERSLIDE SLIDE OFF video of Bobbe's.
I think it is available here on the SGF.
Randy,Bobbe and Maurice playing and improvising over a lot of standards with the camera out front,close up, at fretboard level.
You can see their hands clearly and really get a lesson in the picking,blocking and bar handling of these experts.It is also a wealth of improvising info.

[James Morehead]

[Johnny Thomasson]

Great thread. I use pick blocking and palm blocking, as well as using the thumb and middle fingertip of my left hand.

I recently learned Dickey Overby's riff on the Johnny Bush tune, "I'll Be There". The quick run on the 17th fret... I can't seem to block that for the life of me. Effective blocking is what makes that run really shine. Anyone know which technique Dickey used?

Thanks,

[James Morehead]

[Jim Sliff]

Position your hands on your steel as if to start playing. First, look at your bar hand. Your second finger should extend past the tip of the bar so as to mute a string or two past the tip of the bar.

I've heard something like this mentioned before - but it doesn't register with me. What string is your second finger going to mute when it's extending past all the strings?

In response to whoever mentioned something about their palm not contacting the strings in some places, I have the same issue - my right hand has a curve to it that arches over the strings. There's no flat area to set down and mute with - to do it I'd have to make an exaggerated movement and press down hard on the strings, which obviously doesn't work (curling fingers under my hand just compounds the problem). Near my wrist, the palm contacts the lower strings - but on the higher strings it's arched a good 3/4" off the strings. The only way I can get it even a bit closer is to do what is touted as an absolute sin - raise my elbow WAY up, which tends to flatten the whole plane of my hand..

So I end up with a kind of mixed bag of palm blocking on the one or two strings my hand happens to hit, some pick blocking, and (gasp!) some bar lifts - which was the only kind of "blocking" I was ever taught on dobro.

[James Morehead]

[Jim Sliff]

Proper technique, your bar should only bar the strings you are playing

Your saying you move the bar in *two* directions? Up and down the fretboard and away/closer to your body?

Again, this is something I think I've read about once, but it's in none of the instruction materials I have, and I don't think I recall ever seeing anyone play like that. It seems like competely wasted movement that would be distracting with no purpose. Where did this become "proper technique" - because if it is, it's sure not written about much?

As far as the right hand position - I have to assume I'm reading something wrong - with the position suggested and the thumb bent back to point to the peghead, the fingers are curled into a ball- the only way to pick would be to bend the picks completely around the fingertips and "push" the string toward the player, instead of a normal picking position liike on every other instrument. And to drop the back of my hand back down the picks come off the strings by the same 3/4" or so mentioned earlier, since with the picks in that configuration the hand is even more off the strings. I've seen a few videos with a clenched position, but they seemed the exception, not the rule. Like I said, I must be reading it wrong - still can't make it work.

[Dave Magram]

Jim Sliff,

James and Mike and others have done an excellent job of explaining blocking techniques in this thread. However, it's a bit like sex-- it's not easy to explain it to someone who hasn't done it.

To respond to your comment:
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Again, this is something I think I've read about once, but it's in none of the instruction materials I have, and I don't think I recall ever seeing anyone play like that. It seems like competely wasted movement that would be distracting with no purpose.
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To get some instruction material, I'd highly recommend Joe Wright's excellent pick-blocking video, as was suggested already in this thread. Joe demonstrates very thoroughly all of the blocking techniques that are part of "pick-blocking". (Hint: it's a lot more than just "blocking with your picks".)

To see someone perform using these techniques, I'd suggest that you take a look at the closeups of Hal Rugg playing on "George Jones & Tammy Wynette - Late 1960's - Milwaukee Here" at http://youtube.com/watch?v=I7BPnb2wKKQ
starting at about 2:50.
It is hardly "wasted motion"... Hal shows very clearly the brilliant economy of motion of his blocking techniques with this great solo.

However, if you try to copy what Hal is doing, even after seeing him do it, you'll realize how subtle these blocking techniques are- and that's when you will realize why Joe Wright's "Pick-Blocking" video is worth every penny if you want to learn this useful technique.

Dave

[Tucker Jackson]

Regarding moving the bar to only cover the strings being played:

...It seems like competely wasted movement that would be distracting with no purpose.

As far as I'm concerned, the main reason for moving the bar to only cover the strings being played... is precisely so that you can block higher strings using the middle finger. I think many (most?) steelers use this in-and-out bar technique at one point or another in a song.

In terms of the position of the right hand for palm blocking, Jeff Newman was one of the big proponents of rotating the whole hand counter-clockwise to be at a 45 degree angle -- and he acknowledged that this is slightly unnatural-feeling at first. But this puts the fleshiest part of the palm over the strings being played. Otherwise it's as Jim described in an earlier post. If you just set your hand down on the strings in the most natural-feeling position (not 45 degrees), there isn't much meat over the strings to block cleanly.

If you find that you're not plam blocking cleanly, try rotating your hand counter-clockwise a bit. It may feel a little odd, but it works great.

[J Fletcher]

When I started playing steel, a friend gave me a copy of Winnie Winston's instructional book. After a few weeks I got to the blocking section, and proceeded to practice blocking everyday for a month.

I was convinced I would never block, as it just wasn't happening, and that was after four weeks of trying. Then one day, it happened, I was palm blocking! Didn't do anything different that day, but what had been a jerky non-blocking right hand, became a reasonably smooth palm blocking right hand. The motion just came together overnight, after a month of practicing. Happened in my sleep I guess.