Hawaiian Music and Economics 101

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 26 Aug 2006 9:23 am

Matt,
Since your in Houston, you should try to call and talk with Herb Remington (he lives on Jean Street)about the Hawaiian music scene in the area.

Thanx,
Jim

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 26 Aug 2006 9:54 am

You're right, Jim. He's the one who sold me my current steel.

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 26 Aug 2006 1:39 pm

"I challenge anyone to approach the young generation today on the subject of Hawaiian music. I'm reasonably certain all you'll get in at least 90% of the responses will be a blank stare. However most young folk will be aware of dixieland as the alternate to rock."

That's true, but as people grow older they discover new things - and many times those new things are old things. I didn't know anything about Hawaiian music until I was in my 30s. If you would've asked me when I was 18 if I'd be listening to the kinds of music I listen to today, I wouldn't have believed you. There will be many of today's young generation that will stumble upon stuff they haven't yet even imagined they'd listen to.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 26 Aug 2006 2:19 pm

Jeff I am very glad to hear that is the case and that not all youth in Hawaii (hopefully most even?) are blowing off their roots. i for one immerse myself as much as i can in a music's history and culture when I learn to play it because, i highly respect it. I am still learning. I would like to see earlier music than 1930s being preserved everywhere. The hot jazz of the 20s is barely known to most people. I'm actually quite curious as to why the interest in 1930s-1950s and not earlier?

I didn't get to read Gary's post Jeff so i don't know what he said but, I sincerely hope that as important as cultural pride is, there is also a willingness to let other people in as well. I know the term haole can be derogatory? I believe a balance of respect for tradition as well as innovation is important to every musical style.

As for tastes, Keoki, I used to only listen to progressive rock. now I mainly play nostalgia music. people grow and if there's an opportunity, they will tune in eventually.

Meanwhile I am dying to go to Hawaii.

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 27 Aug 2006 5:08 am

AJ and Todd, how long have you been playing professionally?, and do either of you have "day jobs"?

Kevin Bullat · Post by **Kevin Bullat** » 27 Aug 2006 11:06 am

I'm in a Hawaiian trio called The Smokin Menehunes here in the OC. I'll say one thing, I've made more money and had more fun playing Hawaiian than I ever did in the dark minor keyed world of rock.

At Hawaiian themed gigs, folks are there to have FUN, good food, good drinks, and we contract with a hula dancer that is truly beautuful and talented. She is also the choreographer for a group in HI called Don Tiki. (Although it's hard to pay attention to the music when she is swaying in front of me)

I'm 46 and do this as a hobby. We each typically make about $225 per gig. Gig's are typically no longer than 3 hours with a 15 minute break each hour.

There are only a few bands out this way that I am familiar with, and they are my friends: King Kukulele and the Friki Tikis, APE, and The Mai Kai Gents.

I love Hawaiian and always want to play it (with a Western Swing influence that is! Yee Haw and ALoha I say!)

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 27 Aug 2006 11:35 am

Jeff wrote: "Think any young Hawaiians want to listen to a haole tell them how their music should sound? Keoki, you have a very romanticized view of Hawai'i. You'd like it kept sealed in a time capsule, as you've always dreamt of it".

What a pile of crock pal. You have never met me and you have no idea to presume my feeling towards YOUR music. I am not living in a time capsule as you insinuate. Those in Hawai'i who have met and know me can attest to that! Also as a "haole", (are you being a bit racial now?) I have never been so bold or impolite as to tell Hawaiians, for whom I hold the deepest of respect, how their music should sound !!

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 27 Aug 2006 1:19 pm

What's wrong with us being humans and this being our music? Blues and jazz are often thought of as black music. While this is largely true, alot was borrowed from europe to make it. Modern hawaiian music is similar imho. As cultures come together they enrich each other. We will fare better, I think, if we treat each other with a little more generosity than we have been here. I hope I don't sound self righteous. I get contentious and uptight, too. Just not this time.

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 27 Aug 2006 2:12 pm

John -- the short answer is, no, I don't have a 'day job,' per se. I'm fortunate to have a wife who has a great day gig (and who, btw, INSISTS that I just do music -- go figure, eh?). I am also a house husband, if one could call it that, as I'm the guy who basically cleans house, buys food, cooks dinner, etc. My wife's son, and my two kids are grown, so it's just us, the dog and the cats now.

But, since music's all I do, I also spend a HUGE amount of my day mailing contracts or CD's, talking to potential clients on the phone, writing tunes, rehearsing, writing charts, recording demos for the other guys, running to the bank, printer, practicing, etc., so I pretty much stay in music world most of the day.

There are days when I think I'd like to go back to the corporate gig for the extra money, more regimented routine, blah, blah..., but then I think about the flexibility, and the fact that our home life has been much less stressful, and more, I dunno... organic(?) than before. For us, it just works.

I found that playing with two other like-minded guys who can get into the Hawaiian hapa-haole stuff, as much as they can the swing, surf, blues, and whatever else we do makes it a lot easier. I was lucky that when I suggested the idea of doing the hapa-haole stuff, not only didn't they say I was crazy, but were enthusiastic about doing it. Since then, we've found it fills a LOT of holes in the gig schedule with all kinds of cool work. When we added the surf stuff, it really blossomed into a different kind of niche thing. The only part about it I don't like is having to move (and set up and tune)an electric upright bass, a Fender Jazz bass, and my D8 steel, plus the bass amp, and a P.A. system. I used to also bring a steel amp, but now just play through the guitarist's amp, and adjust the settings. Oh yeah, and do about 99% of the lead vocals (including when playing steel). It's a lot, but it's worth it.

Damn... I just realized... I think I need to be taking a bigger pay cut!

TJW

------------------
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 27 Aug 2006 2:22 pm

Music IS my day job.

I play in two bands and a duo, book classical musicians for functions and weddings, DJ for same, when it comes up i compose or sound deisgn for a film, commercial, multimedia/games or whatever. Then i also coach a guy in his home tudio on how to use his gear. So I don't do just one thing but, mainly because i can do a few and I'd get bored if I did only one thing.

Currently my nostalgia band will be working on putitng together a vaudeville/burlesque revue with the music.

When I got sick I made the decision to only do work that makes me happy. it's not always an easy road but, it's worth waking up for

Kevin Bullat · Post by **Kevin Bullat** » 27 Aug 2006 5:34 pm

Mr Au Hoy,

I can obvsiously tell by your reply that your are, in essence, the physical condensation of the aloha spirit and all that it implies.

I am so glad that such spirit still exists in your eyes...

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 27 Aug 2006 7:04 pm

Actually, I am much older than 37. I have a plan. At my job I get alot of paid time off. My plan is to use this time to work myself into a gigging situation. As it expands I could go part time at work and actually choose my hours. I am hoping to segue from my current job into doing music. I can play. I need to find some likeminded players and get to work on the business end of things. I'm confident that I can do it. I'm very enthusiastic about it. I just need to execute. I don't expect it to be easy. As Lao Tzu says,"He who thinks it is easy will not succeed."

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 27 Aug 2006 7:09 pm

I have discovered that there is a lot of old Hawaiian music that never gets into the so-called tourist catagory. There are many beautiful tunes which most of us never hear.
There is a songbook of tunes written by the last queen of Hawaii, Queen Lilioukalani. The book has about 250 songs in it that she wrote. It seem that she was really into music in her lifetime. I only know a few of these, and they are not in the mainsrteam. If I were a good music reader, I'm sure I would discover much in this book.
It's available in Hawaii.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 27 Aug 2006 8:01 pm

Bill...I have had that book for about ayear and it is a treasure to own.
http://www3.telus.net/public/lake_r/

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 28 Aug 2006 2:09 pm

Todd, Kevin, & AJ,

I'm curious to know how you put the wheels in motion once you made the decision.

For example, how did you choose your repertoire? How many tunes did you feel was necessary to learn for a party gig or lu'au? Was one hour of material enough to start on or did you not market yourselves until you had more?

By the way, the term haole is only derogatory if it's preceded by adjectives like "stupid", "fat", or some other obscenity.[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 29 August 2006 at 11:36 AM.]

Kevin Bullat · Post by **Kevin Bullat** » 2 Sep 2006 4:41 pm

Braddah Matt!

I always played what I liked to hear on steel. Of course, this is from the perspective of a steel player, that typically only enjoys (for the most part, folks.. Now just sit back down!)hearing steel.

But my ukulele player, a Hawaiian fellow named Pat Enos, taught me to understand that audiences want to see a show.

They're not gonna just "ooo, and ahh" by fancy steel pickin', but rather by a combination of sensory perception (if this sounds like a television commercial, I'm appologize).

They want vocals, hula dancers, having folks come up from the audience and learn to hula, wild burps on the mic (just kidding).

What I just said should have nothing to impact your decision on what your band's song list it.

Just go wit' what you like braddah!

P.s Sorry, I forgot to tell you my rule-of-thumb for number of Hawaiian songs for a workable list:

1) Number of songs really depends on how good your front man is to working the audience with BS between songs, you know like: "yeah, I was born in Kaneohe and as a keike kane, I... blah, blah, blah"

2) If you got a hula dancer or no. You can run a hula song fo' 10 minutes! Ooo'ee!

3) How drunk the audience is (come on, you know what I takin' 'bout)

4) As a general rule, 10 songs for 30 minutes.

(hey, if you playin' Hawaiian language tunes, the audience doesn't really know if you play same tune 2 or 3 time! It ain't FreeBird!)
[This message was edited by Kevin Bullat on 02 September 2006 at 05:48 PM.]

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 3 Sep 2006 2:13 pm

Boy did you nail it! Show show show!!
I woudl say 10 songs can cover a 45 mintue set. it really depends on how many solos you do.

You have to have a very minimum of 2 sets to gig. 4 sets is safer. i like 50 minute sets.
Which songs? Doesn't matter. Most people you're playing for wont' know the tunes. You're creating an atmosphere.
Also don't forget value added stuff like helping them figure out decorations, getting them silk leis from Hawaii, etc.
Ultimately have fun and the audienc eiwll enjoy it. Now the downsid ebut, the necessary evil; you might have to do other tropical music on request. So Beach Boys, Jimmy Buffet, reggae might be requested. You cam either set a no way rule or bend when necessary. Onsite request i frown on but, pre-requests I am open to. Althoug,h you might get the odd drunk asking FOR Freebird lol

As far as haole, yes I know it's a neutral wor dbut, you know when it's being used derogatorily.

Kevin Bullat · Post by **Kevin Bullat** » 3 Sep 2006 6:45 pm

Funny thing about the word 'Haole'. It doesn't generally have a positive spin to it when some kanaka screams it out his car window at you crossing the street.

However, the more you learn about the small and large parts of Hawaiian culture, and the more you hang out with the island braddahs, the more they begin to accept you - haole! - as one of their own.

I'll be hanging out with my ukulele player and his fellow local boys, and inevitably someone will say 'and some damn haole...' and they're talking to me and the group, but they don't think of me as haole right then.

They word really has a number of inflections which can be added, changing its intention at a moments notice.

Just be respectful as you would be in any neighbors house...
[This message was edited by Kevin Bullat on 03 September 2006 at 07:46 PM.]

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 4 Sep 2006 1:49 am

Having grown up in a multi cultural home of Jewish, israeli, eastern European and Argentinian, I am very open and sensitive to all cultures and I hope that other cultures open thmselves to others who want to learn about them. it's not always the case but, respect is important and often forgotten.

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 5 Sep 2006 7:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm curious to know how you put the wheels in motion once you made the decision.

For example, how did you choose your repertoire? How many tunes did you feel was necessary to learn for a party gig or lu'au? Was one hour of material enough to start on or did you not market yourselves until you had more?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt - I sort of 'fell' into it, to be honest. When I moved here to the Tampa area, a friend hooked me up a friend of theirs who did his hapa-haole Hawaiian schtick with solo guitar. He played for parties, mostly. He's also the first to tell you that he's not what he'd call a 'real' musician, but an entertainer (a summation with which I would agree, btw!). Anyway, he was looking for someone who could play some Hawaiian steel backup for him on certain gigs.

After doing some of those with him, and picking up several tunes I hadn't known of before, I met Dick Sanft, and learned a TON from him about steel playing, as well as more tunes.

About two and a half years ago, I felt I had enough of a list to at least do a two hour hapa-haole gig. So, I put together about 30 backing tracks with bass/ukulele on my Roland VS-890 recorder, and put them on mini-disc. This allowed me to do solo background music gigs, playing steel live with my tracks. The thing is, playing solo like that just isn't fun, IMO. I need other musicians to play off of. So, I asked the drummer and guitarist in my swing band, Wholly Cats!!!, if they'd be into putting together a set or two of this stuff. To my surprise, they said yes, and that's how we now do our alter ego as Haole Kats!!!.

Another thing we've found is people say they want just all Hawaiian music for the duration of their party, but the fact is, they DON'T. You have to be able to do other material too, especially if it's more than an hour gig. I've found this to be true 100% of the time, for all the parties we've done, and I guess we've done about 30 or 40 of them.

If you have an hour's worth of Hawaiian tunes, that's enough to start bookin', IMO. Good luck!

TJW www.whollycatsband.com

------------------
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, A6, B11); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Regal resonator (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); assorted ukuleles; upright bass

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 5 Sep 2006 11:46 am

Kevin, AJ, and Todd,

Thank you for all the useful info. You have just saved me at least 1-2 years of misdirected effort.

Matt

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Sep 2006 12:06 pm

Don't worry matt,

You have years of misdirected effort in front of you.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 5 Sep 2006 8:39 pm

What did we say that convinced you not to do it???
If that's what I did I had better not become a motivational speaker!

Bill Manning · Post by **Bill Manning** » 5 Sep 2006 9:26 pm

My very abbreviated thoughts about this subject:

There's no rule against pursuing a dream even while dealing with day-to-day realities.

If you want it bad enough, you'll make it happen. If not today, maybe tomorrow.

There are no age barriers--37, 57, 107, doesn't matter. The only real barrier is "me."

I sure better be careful when typing and not transpose letters if and when I ever use the word "haole."

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 6 Sep 2006 6:18 am

No, AJ.

I'm going to do it. Now that I know what channels to pursue, how to advertise, and what kind of working conditions and the amount hours to expect, and what I should charge, I know what I need to spend time working on. Like mixing up the songlist so it's not 100% Hawaiian. Or networking with the hula dance circles. That kind of thing.