pedals ( a bit off topic)...

Carroll Hale · Post by **Carroll Hale** » 30 May 2007 11:01 am

Gerard Ventura wrote:
Ken Pippus wrote:I beg to differ, but I think you need at least one neck, unless into some virtual Zen thing.

KP
I have a pretty good neck, but the brain on top of it is fraying at the edges ....seems like this could go in the humor section.....that is funny......

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 30 May 2007 4:25 pm

basilh wrote:Alan knows, he's seen me play that way. Alan ?

Watching Basil play would fill anyone with awe. With what goes on above and below the instrument the mind boggles.

He's also got a copedant unlike anyone else I've seen, so it's impossible to follow.

But just listen to the results

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 30 May 2007 5:25 pm

Basilh. What you are doing tuning wise is exactly what I was talking about. You are combining all the tunings of a multineck guitar on one neck with pedals to change tunings,NOT just pedals for certain licks and using the potential of all the tunings within each song you play.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 31 May 2007 12:43 am

I developed my copedent within the limitations of single raise and lower, because that's all I had at the time. Initially I had a Gibson EH-150 six string 4 pedal guitar that could raise and lower, BUT, the lowers were impractical so I developed a "Raise Only" copedent for that style of changer.

Open tuning was Am6th E-C-A-F#-E-C.
Pedal 1 raised the F# to G giving me C6
Pedal 2 raised the Cs to C# Giving me A6 or A7 with pedals 1+2
Pedal 3 raised the F# to G# and the A to B giving E6 with pedal 2
and pedal 4 raised the first string E to F# and the second string to D#
I effectively had E6 A6 C6 D9 A9 Emaj9 with a 6th and maj7th. A13b5th A6b5th C6b5#9
It worked for me, and at the time there was no instructional courses from the USA available in the UK so I plodded on in my blissful ignorance of other copedents or styles other than what I had in my Hawaiian collection.

When I got my Fender 1000 in 1963 it was a monumental task to retain what I had learned and extend it to encompass the unbelievable "Single raise and lower" and 8 pedals. WOW !!

I play in all the common tunings on non pedal lap or console steel with the exception of the non Hawaiian resonator related "Open" tunings. (I leave those tunings to the "Ricky Ticky acoustic players)

So with a wealth of tunings in my head, it was logical that I should follow my OWN way as opposed to the copedent in the Fender manual. Fender's recommended copedent was developed, by and for, primarily Western or Country players, whereas I needed a comprehensive tuning to encompass Hawaiian style playing AND the capability to play "Standards and Evergreens" (I think known colloquially as the "Great American Songbook")

Not using a volume pedal in the way that E9th players do, I was not limited to one foot on the pedals and consequently use up to four pedals simultaneously.
The way I play is to use the pedals to find the nearest inversion of the chord or harmony position.

For example I think of "G" being available at the 3rd fret 5th fret 7th fret 10th fret 13th fret and 15th.
NOT envisioning the scalic positions but the chord inversions.

To me any Key represents a series of "Pockets" around EACH available inversion of the given key.

i.e.
The third fret = Key of G with ALL related chords within two frets up or down.
Or, the Key of Eb with a slightly different pocket structure.

Now, this mindset also applies to my non pedal playing because I can envisage what the notes WOULD be if I used the pedals, so I don't need to spend time figuring out where the notes are placed, I know, I can SEE in my mind where they are.

Maybe I'm NOT expressing myself properly, or maybe I'm giving the wrong impresion. I'm NOT clever or different in ANY way, both my wife Pat and I have been born with music in our "heart and soul".

We hear something and invariably can relate it to our instrument and play it, practice was NEVER our forte, we just rehearsed.

Sometime, when and if we get invited to a "Stateside" convention, we may be able to demonstrate our love for music, until then all we can do is make our recordings available..

Like here :- click here

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 31 May 2007 7:44 am

I really appreciate what Baz has demonstrated here using good taste with pedal chord changes.

This amount of chord combinations is something you just can't do with a single or even triple neck non pedal guitar.

What Bas is doing uses the same principal of what Harlin Bros. Multi-Kord was designed to do. It was never meant to be limited to holding one pedal down thru the whole song, although we do that sometimes.

I'm not taking anything away from the non pedal players as I love to hear good music played on them as well. Bobby Ingano, Jerry Byrd, LT Zinn, and many others, are highly impressive with their fantastic playing on non pedal.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 31 May 2007 7:46 pm

I've been sitting here for the last few weeks doing all sorts of calculations on paper, to figure out what would give me the best combinations of chords for the sort of music I play, on the 6-string Multichord I just renovated, and on the 8-string one I'm working on, on which I'm changing the pedals to regular Emmons pedals and adding knee levers. I seem to have come up with a copedant very similar to Basil's, but the pedals being in a different order.

Basil, your notes are very useful, and easy to follow. Thanks.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 31 May 2007 8:50 pm

Baz, thanks for posting the above. It was a fascinating read! Your playing is one of the primary reasons I think pedals are totally cool in Hawaiian music.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 31 May 2007 10:43 pm

Mahalo Nui Jeff, and YOUR playing (The Three T's) "Touch- Tone- Technique" on the lap steel is MY main motivation to try to recreate the "Golden Era" sound you so expertly portray, I've even constructed an 8 string lap steel for just that purpose.

New Name for you "Jeff 3t's Au Hoy" !!

Gerard Ventura · Post by **Gerard Ventura** » 1 Jun 2007 5:19 am

Thanks Baz, Jeff and everyone else...innovative and fascinating stuff!

I just heard about Maurice Anderson, and saw these clips of non-pedal steel- any idea what kind of setup he was using? I couldn't tell by the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHjpQ3C ... ted&search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd6cU15j ... ted&search

One things for sure - he was NOT limited by the lack of pedals!!

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 1 Jun 2007 8:44 am

Mr. Anderson uses an MSA superslide. 12 strings. Tuning from top to bottom-DBGECAGECAFD. Makes me want to buy one.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 1 Jun 2007 9:40 am

Corrected by Edward.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 1 Jun 2007 9:58 am

I think you're upside down, Bill. That was from top to bottom. The 1st string D is a whole step below the 4th string E and the second string B is a half step below the 5th string C.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 1 Jun 2007 10:06 am

What he said!

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 1 Jun 2007 7:03 pm

I have known a couple of guy who could do bar slants, both C6 and E9 and play wonderful. As some one said use your creaivity and don't worry about what people say and think. Please don't try to fit in a box or mold. If everyone did the same thing the world would be a boring place. Me I wish I could play like some of these talented folks on any instrument

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pedals ( a bit off topic)...

Pedals