pedals ( a bit off topic)...

Gerard Ventura · Post by **Gerard Ventura** » 26 May 2007 12:10 pm

...But I feel like foolish posting this in the pedal section-
I'm learning a D8 non-pedal, and seeing how pedal steels have anywhere from 3 to 10 pedals, 0 to 5 or more knee levers, one or two necks....

How many necks/pedals/levers do you really 'need' to play a steel??!! thanks-

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 26 May 2007 1:12 pm

None.

A quick browse of the various audio samples posted here so far indicates that you DON'T need pedals or knee levers to play beautiful music on the steel guitar. They are certainly helpful for certain chord formations, and for attaining certain sounds you couldn't get otherwise, but they're not "needed".

Don't feel foolish about asking such a question in the Pedal Steel section. That's why it's there.

I won't move this from Steel without Pedals to Pedal Steel yet.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 26 May 2007 1:58 pm

None.

Tom Morrell, Jerry Byrd, Alvino Rey, Billy Robinson (sp?), and lots of others all do/did fine without them.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 26 May 2007 2:02 pm

I beg to differ, but I think you need at least one neck, unless into some virtual Zen thing.

KP

Gary Lynch · Post by **Gary Lynch** » 26 May 2007 2:27 pm

Just go over to the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association site and there's enough free downloadable music to keep you busy thinking about it for an hour anyway. "Pedals? You don't need no stinking pedals"

http://www.hsga.org/new_design/audio.htm

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 26 May 2007 2:30 pm

I would say it depends on the type of music you are playing. Certainly, everyone here is correct that you don't need any, especially if you are interested in western swing, Hawaiian , blues, rock, or Hank Williams type of playing.

If you are interested in more traditional country steel then a single neck with 3 pedals I think would be the minimum you would need.

Gerard Ventura · Post by **Gerard Ventura** » 26 May 2007 7:17 pm

Ken Pippus wrote:I beg to differ, but I think you need at least one neck, unless into some virtual Zen thing.

KP

I have a pretty good neck, but the brain on top of it is fraying at the edges

.

Gerard Ventura · Post by **Gerard Ventura** » 26 May 2007 7:24 pm

Bill McCloskey wrote:I would say it depends on the type of music you are playing. Certainly, everyone here is correct that you don't need any, especially if you are interested in western swing, Hawaiian , blues, rock, or Hank Williams type of playing.

If you are interested in more traditional country steel then a single neck with 3 pedals I think would be the minimum you would need.

Thanks for the reply. My main focus is western swing, as I'm coming from trad jazz guitar. Two 8 string non-pedal necks are pretty versatile if I'm not going after the moving notes within a chord, but I'm just a beginner.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 May 2007 6:40 am

How many strings do you need?

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 27 May 2007 6:50 am

I prefer 8 strings now but must confess that almost everything I play can be played on just 6 strings.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 May 2007 7:44 am

I remember Herb Remington telling me that every pedal or KL you add just makes things easier.

Interesting perspective. It was a new concept to me back then, but I now totally agree.

FWIW, almost all my playing is commercial E9.
4 KL, 3 pedals are my minimum requirements.
(even though I have more)

Nathan Hernandez · Post by **Nathan Hernandez** » 27 May 2007 12:03 pm

"If you are interested in more traditional country steel then a single neck with 3 pedals I think would be the minimum you would need."

Traditional Country is played with out pedals,,, Contemperary Country is played with pedals but dosnt have to be,,,, its all about what your mind frame is I guess. To many people are cought up in
"Pedal Steel" has to be used here and not here, and non-pedal is limited and can only be used here,,, its about how far you push your creativeness, with what your willing to use,,, and mine dosnt push that far!!!!YET!!!!!!

JW Wakefield plays everything with out pedals!!!

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 27 May 2007 1:42 pm

Mr. Hernandez is correct. Any tune that a person wants to play without pedals can be played without them. The only thing is, you WON'T sound exactly like Lloyd Green of Buddy Emmons. You'll sound like you.
Yes, I know. It's very difficult to sound exactly like Lloyd Green or Buddy Emmons even with pedals.

Nathan Hernandez · Post by **Nathan Hernandez** » 28 May 2007 9:46 pm

Id love to sound like these guys!!!!!

Buddy and Loyd,,,,No pedals!!!!

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 29 May 2007 8:51 am

You may not need pedals or levers but having more than one neck on the steel and more than six strings adds volumes to your chord capabilities.

I just had a six string steel given to me and believe me, the extra two strings and the second neck on my D8 gives me an entirerly different world to play in.

Now if I could only bend that damn bar or stretch it while I am trying to get those other strings involved.

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 29 May 2007 10:34 am

Pedals and levers make some things easier, replacing bar slants for example, but they also allow you to do some things that would be impossible to do otherwise. Can't imagine Ralph Mooney style playing without those pedals...Jerry

Gary Lynch · Post by **Gary Lynch** » 29 May 2007 11:13 am

A lot of this topic has to do with the style and music one enjoys playing. Can't imagine David Lindley or Bob Brozman using a pedal steel regardless of what it can or cannot do. If a person uses open D and G and other such tunings on their lap steel, console, and Weiss exclusively, then what would be the point? And players like Bobby Ingano have a style that reads; 'no pedals required'.

On the other hand, if you want to play some really involved jazz, 10 -12 stings and heap of leavers may allow you to get to nirvana and points beyond.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 29 May 2007 11:24 am

Traditional Country is played with out pedals,,, Contemperary Country is played with pedals

Actually I think contemporary country is played with no pedals...and no steel!

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 29 May 2007 12:06 pm

The noise of the modern country would drown out the sound of the steel guitar most of the time.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 29 May 2007 12:39 pm

A "standard" Nashville style 10-string E9 pedal steel has a minimum of 3 pedals and 3 knee levers, but up to 4 pedals and 4 or 5 levers has become very common. A standard western swing 10-string C6 neck has 5 pedals and a couple of levers. But those who play modern jazz commonly have 4 or 5 levers. Therefore, a typical D10 would have 8 pedals and 4 levers, with some levers working both necks; and pros might push that to 9 or 10 pedals and 8 levers, with seperate lever clusters for each neck. It is not so much a question of what you "need" as what you "want."

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 May 2007 3:30 pm

If you took a pedal guitar and wanted to set it up to get different traditional lap steel tunings, what combinations could you come up with. Surely some of you have done this...using a pedal guitar to change tunings and still use your non pedal bar technique.

Lets say you had a 10 string pedal guitar with 3 floors and 4 knees.

I can see that it would be easy to have C6 and the Leavitt tuning with just a few pulls. I am not versed enough in other lap tunings to know what else you could get. Maybe there would be another starting tuning other than C6 that would give more potential.

Could you get close to the same tunings on one neck of a pedal guitar as you would have with a triple or quad neck non pedal?

Just wondering. I figure some of you here have done this.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 May 2007 8:44 pm

Bill Hatcher wrote:If you took a pedal guitar and wanted to set it up to get different traditional lap steel tunings, what combinations could you come up with. Surely some of you have done this...using a pedal guitar to change tunings and still use your non pedal bar technique.

Lets say you had a 10 string pedal guitar with 3 floors and 4 knees.

I can see that it would be easy to have C6 and the Leavitt tuning with just a few pulls. I am not versed enough in other lap tunings to know what else you could get. Maybe there would be another starting tuning other than C6 that would give more potential.

Could you get close to the same tunings on one neck of a pedal guitar as you would have with a triple or quad neck non pedal?

Just wondering. I figure some of you here have done this.

Yes, but you would have to keep your feet on the pedals for the entire tune. They say that the original Harlin Multi-Kord was made with that in mind, but I've always thought that if you just wanted to use the pedals to change the tuning then it would be better if you had a lock on each pedal to keep any combination of pedals locked in the down position during a number.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 30 May 2007 8:44 am

Pedal locks would be helpful I suppose for an entire number, but what about the technique of going from tuning to tuning within a number. The multineck guys of yesteryear did a lot of neck swapping while playing one tune. Is that not a viable idea to change tunings within a song with the pedals.

This would be very interesting especially if the tunings were close to each other ala E6, E13, E7 etc.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 30 May 2007 9:17 am

I play that way all the time on my Fender 1000.
I treat it as a 10 necked guitar, using tuning changes within the song.
Like this 5 tunings
or this 6 tunings
Or this with just 4 tunings
Alan knows, he's seen me play that way.
Alan ?

Basilcally E6 - A6 - C6 - A9 - D9 - Emaj7/9. and variants
This is also played in a similar fashion Click me !

Basilcally ? Freudian Slip !!

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 30 May 2007 10:13 am

The tunings in use are here :- Click