Steel Guitar and Clarinet: bad combo?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 23 May 2007 8:15 pm

"Kenny G's also a soprano saxophonerist."

I will agree that Kenny G is the "onerist" saxophonerist on the face of the planet.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 23 May 2007 9:52 pm

I think that two musicians of sufficient skill could make absolutely ANY two instruments sound good together.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 24 May 2007 1:49 am

On reflection, I agree with AJ, Ed and Bob - it's the arrangement and the skill of the musicians, not the instrument with the exception of certain frequency ranges where the timbres are very similar. The clarinet is a wonderful instrument that's too rarely heard in popular music. Bob: yes, Hubert Rostaing was a beautiful player!

For Bill McCloskey:

http://www.richardthompson-music.com/au ... etheny.mp3

Kevin Ruddell · Post by **Kevin Ruddell** » 24 May 2007 2:05 am

Rick Sherry of the band Devil In A Woodpile doubles on clarinet when not playing harmonica , singing or harmonica . It blends really well with the National steel guitarist and Tuba player.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 24 May 2007 2:56 am

Umm... I'm pretty certain Matt Rhodes posted tongue in cheek.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 24 May 2007 3:29 am

One would hope, but I've given up assuming folks are kidding.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 24 May 2007 4:20 am

"Kenny G's also a soprano saxophonerist. Probably the best reed player of the 20th Century. "

Wish I'd said that...
.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 24 May 2007 6:19 am

Yes, I know my comments sound a little close-minded. But I based them on the studies and findings conducted in the early 70's by a well-known ethnomusicologist at the University of Hawaii (Manoa). He's of Spanish-Hawaiian descent and his name is Dr. Toro Kūkae.

Anyway, he found that because of the similarity of timbre between the two instruments, the sympathetic vibrations that were created when the two happened to be played at precisely the same time and same level of frequency created damage to the eardrums on two separate occasions. Make of that what you will.

As far as all of the great names in jazz that were quoted as examples of "hip" clarinetists, keep in mind that most of these innovators are now deceased. However, I did enjoy some of Sidney Bechet's movies. I remember him fondly in A Raisin In The Sun.

Hipness, by definition, implies currency and it's usually the masses of teens and twenty-somethings that define what's hip at any given time. It's sad that we don't see modern rock bands like My Chemical Romance and Dashboard Confessional using the clarinet, but that's their choice. Who am I to doubt the masses?

George Piburn · Post by **George Piburn** » 24 May 2007 6:20 am

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 24 May 2007 6:23 am

Matt Rhodes writes:

Anyway, he found that because of the similarity of timbre between the two instruments, the sypathetic vibrations that were created when the two happened to be played at precisely the same time and same level of frequency created damage to the eardrums on two separate occasions. Make of that what you will.

"I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back in time."
-- Steven Wright

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 24 May 2007 6:54 am

You don't believe me, Gerald?

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 24 May 2007 6:56 am

Just playing with you Matt.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 24 May 2007 7:04 am

Good, cuz' I wouldn't believe me, either!

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 24 May 2007 7:50 am

Isn't it strange that the steel guitar is in the same frequency range with the spanish (i.e., 6-string) guitar and the violin, but they sound great together????

Bob Markison · Post by **Bob Markison** » 24 May 2007 7:51 am

Nice to be back among those who love the beautiful sound of steel guitar. I agree also with George re: longevity of steel. I hope steel guitars go on and on. The clarinet is a hybrid of the chalumeau and the recorder. When Jacob Denner put 2 keys on it in 1702, he did not anticipate a rise of a 12th rather than a flute-like perfect octave. The 12th rise makes it tougher to play clarinet as fluently as a saxophone, hence the paucity of nimble players who credibly swing through various idioms. By 1825, the clarinet fell into final form, permitting Mozart to honor Anton Stadler with the Clarinet Concerto. A similar kinship and friendship between Brahms and clarinetist Richard Muhlfeld produced Sonatas 1 and 2, Serenade in A and other extraordinary sound blends. Meanwhile, Adophe Sax invented the bass clarinet and initially modeled saxophones after it, quickly realizing the acoustic challenges of moving (this time) from a cylindrical clarinet bore to conical bore for the saxophone (cylinder/12th back to conical/octave). Sax fought many "instrument legitimacy" battles until adventuous and supportive composers, notably Debussey and Sibelius, hungered for an expanded orchestral sonic palette. Sax was appropriately hell-bent on new instrinsic and ensemble instrumental chemistry for the survival of his creations. No one argued about frequency fights during the codification of string quartet as 2 violins, viola and cello; nor did they argue the sonic integrity of the Bird/Dizzy codification of the sax/trumpet-lead bebop quintet. I seems illogical to freeze steel guitar evolution into idiomatic cubicles when the steel guitar and clarinets and other wind instruments can produce magic, and extend the life span and creative compass of steel. Sincerely sorry to ramble here, but it seems to me that some pretty significant steel players(Alvino Rey, etc) have embraced other instruments for survival, exploration and longevity. Within the Charlie Parker biography, he said he "came alive" while imrovising 9ths, 11ths and 13ths over top of guitarist Biddy Fleet's comping. Getz would have fallen under the crush of Coltrane were it not for the reed-string Getz/Gilberto collaborations of the 60's. Goodman would have stagnated sooner were it not for the Goodman/Christion collaboration. Charlie Parker also treasured the harp intro of Wallace McManus for the rich intro to "Just Friends" on Bird and Strings. Steel guitar can be an amazing bridge, and it should certainly not be self-limiting. If you've read this far, you gather that I'm more of a uniter than a divider. Warm regards to all - keep it fresh daily! - Bob

Terry Wood · Post by **Terry Wood** » 24 May 2007 8:39 am

I haven't read all the posts here but when I read the title,

this immediately came to mind, what about this duo:

BUDDY EMMONS and BENNY GOODMAN or better yet,

BUDDY EMMONS and KENNY G

that would set a few heads a spinning and ears wouldn't just be tickled!

Reece Anderson gave me some really great sound advice about 1978-79. As best as I can remember he said, "Listen to other instruments! I listen to piano players,like Oscar Peterson, horn players, like Charlle Parker, etc., etc. Listen to what they are saying/doing."

I took his advice and started listening to all these players and found out you can do all sorts of cool things. My friend the late Julian THarpe a super steel guitarist would be playing all sorts of background fill things behind the other players he accompanied. I could just listen for hours to the cool things he played like that. Back beat licks on rhythmic type steel, it was like a drummer would play, and Curly Chalker played these type steel fills too.

Well, just some of my thoughts and some sound advice from the Great Reece Anderson.

Steel Guitar is alive and well and I think we've only heard the tip of the iceberg. What is ahead for steel guitar?

GOD bless!

Terry Wood

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 24 May 2007 8:52 am

"Hipness, by definition, implies currency and it's usually the masses of teens and twenty-somethings that define what's hip at any given time. "

Then how is steel guitar hip?

If you want the hipest Clarinet playing I suggest you check out the new CD from "Hot Club of Detroit". Players are all in their 20's. They have the hotest clarinet player I've ever heard. And they just released their first album. Hip. FANTASTIC ALBUM.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 24 May 2007 9:15 am

BTW, I would disagree with your definition of hipness. Hipness is not defined by the masses: faddism is defined by the masses. What's hip implies a closed society, in the know, something restricted to a few insiders. Once something gains popularity, it loses it's hip factor. a new restaurant is hip until the masses find it. A new artist is hip until the masses discover it.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 24 May 2007 9:18 am

If you're over 30, what difference does it make? We can't be trusted, anyway.

By your criteria (numbers), I would think the steel guitar is less studied by students than is the clarinet. So it must be hipper if it's less popular.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 24 May 2007 9:35 am

Bill McCloskey writes:

Once something gains popularity, it loses it's hip factor. a new restaurant is hip until the masses find it. A new artist is hip until the masses discover it.

Yogi Berra said it years ago:

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 24 May 2007 10:04 pm

I work with clarinet players quite often. In my little swing band we either use a violin or a clarinet player. I spent last year on the road with a clarinet player standing next to me on stage. She was great. The way clarinet and steel blend can be fantastic. Clarinet has an odd overtone sound and steel has an even overtone sound. The instruments can blend together to make a full sound or both can be played at the same time without anybodies toes getting stepped on. On my CD there is a long duet with a bass clarinet player.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 25 May 2007 7:36 am

"the clarinet simply isn't hip enough to be in the same room as a steel guitar"

That's a mighty strong and biased statement IMHO. Although many of you youngsters out there may not recall (or even like) the music of ROY SMECK, he used clarinet with steel on many of his recordings. Very listenable.

I had the pleasure of playing steel at a gig with (the late) Randy Oness combo. Randy was probably the last surviving member of the famed HARRY OWENS ROYAL HAWAIIAN ORCH. Randy played excellent jazzy phrases on his clarinet behind my steel and was one of the few reed guys who specialized in Hawaiian music on his instrument. He played a mean ukulele as well. Personally, I think clarinet and steel compliment each other as do vibes and steel.

Speaking of wind instruments and steel, Satchmo and Andy Iona got together on trumpet and steel on about 5 recordings....they sounded great.

http://www3.telus.net/public/lake_r/

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 25 May 2007 10:56 am

Attention fellow non-peddling forumites,

If you all haven't figured it out by now, I'll spell it out for you: my posts were intended to be satirical. It was a joke. I love the clarinet as well as most instruments. Except the kazoo and the derriere; I hate those. But if it helped to inspire some real dialogue, then that's a good thing, no?

If we're at the point where we can't differentiate between seriousness and satire, then our cause is pretty hopeless. There are members of this forum that make far more ignorant statements in all seriousness and no one ever calls them out on it.

I repeat: IT WAS A JOKE.

language lesson for today: Dr. Toro Kūkae
Toro = Spanish for "bull"
Kūkae = Hawaiian for "dung"

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 May 2007 11:05 am

You hate the derriere? I have been and will continue to be influenced and inspired by the derriere as long as I live.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 25 May 2007 11:30 am

The state motto of Wisconsin:

"Just smell that dairy air!"

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Steel Guitar and Clarinet: bad combo?

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