Steel Guitar and Clarinet: bad combo?

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 23 May 2007 10:20 am

I never thought about this before ... fluid steel guitar playing is often compared to the sound of the clarinet. In this clip, beyond the fact that the mix is not that great, with the lap steel's amp overpowering the horn, it seems like the steel's frequencies are too similar to the clarinet's with the clarinet fighting a losing battle. What do you think? The trumpet seemed to work fine as a foil for the steel in Billy Jack Wills' and Merle Travis' bands. Is it just this clip or is the clarinet a bad partner for a lap steel?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvtA_dL-k98

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 23 May 2007 10:57 am

works just fine in my band. violin, cello, 'bone, trumpet, accordion, sax, clarinet. I've played with them all.reso guitar works well. The reason it's not working in this case is a.) volume as you said and b.) arranging issues. Good player does not always translate to good arranger.The clarinet should be playing a counter line interweaving with the melody.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 23 May 2007 12:22 pm

I believe you shouldn't use it. Aside from tonal characteristics, the clarinet simply isn't hip enough to be in the same room as a steel guitar.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 23 May 2007 12:27 pm

tell me you're kidding! Sidney Bechet, Benny Goodman..not hip?

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 23 May 2007 12:38 pm

Hip for the 30's & 40's with an orchestra and as a solo instrument, but not with steel. You're committing musical blasphemy even THINKING of using the two together. Shame, shame...

Clarinets are for lonely girls at band camp. Think "American Pie".

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 23 May 2007 12:53 pm

I'm a bit on the fence about mixing clarinet with electric steel guitar, but clarinet not hip? Check out Buddy DeFranco, Man!

Link to Amazon.com

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 23 May 2007 1:21 pm

...the clarinet simply isn't hip enough to be in the same room as a steel guitar.

LOL

Pot, meet kettle...

Actually, I am playing regularly with a soprano saxophonist, and our instruments blend pretty well as long as we stay out of each other's way. I would say that most of the problem in the YouTube video linked above is that the mix is bad and the guys aren't working together as well as they should.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 23 May 2007 1:38 pm

Joaquin Murphey told me that he listened to Benny Goodman for inspiration. If Joaquin thought clarinet was hip, Herb thinks clarinet is hip.

And even hipper than Goodman, listen to Artie Shaw. One of the greats.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 23 May 2007 1:42 pm

Kenny G's also a soprano saxophonerist. Probably the best reed player of the 20th Century. I suppose using the steel as a "pad" instrument would work really well in that context.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 23 May 2007 1:47 pm

I don't want to have to move this to the Music section, but I will disagree with your assessment of Kenny G as "probably the best reed player of the 20th Century".

Steel guitar does seem to share the same tonal range as the soprano saxophone and clarinet, but it doesn't have to clash with either instrument. It all depends on how you play it. Listening to the other performer(s) makes a huge difference.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 23 May 2007 1:58 pm

Probably the best reed player of the 20th Century

Brad, perhaps the Humor Section would be more appropriate?

If Matt had said "the wealthiest and most financially successful reed player of the 20th century," I would definitely have agreed with him.

But the fans of Charlie Parker, Lester Young, John Coltrane, David Liebman, Johnny Hodges, Ben Webster, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins, et cetera, et alia, would have a small bone to pick with the Matt's assessment of Kenny Gorelick.

Bob Markison · Post by **Bob Markison** » 23 May 2007 2:04 pm

Hi all - haven't posted on this forum in a couple of years, but this thread caught my eye. I took up lap steel about 10 years ago to add onto a long life of clarinet and sax (and flugelhorn and valve trombone) jazz playing. Clarinet blends very well with steel so long as clarinet doesn't bounce up into the higher frequency spectrum. Alto and bass clarinet sound especially good with steel - creamy blends in the lower range - particularly nice on ballads and bossas. Similarly, tenor sax goes very well with steel - including bop heads. Alto sax sometimes gets into a frequency fight - although a soft reed/hard rubber mouthpiece can rekindle some ethereal Desmond/Hall moods. I agree that soprano sax can go well - not sure why. Alto flute also goes well. Flugelhorn and valve trombone blend very nicely with steel. Slide trombone would be expected to go well but has not worked well for me. The BG/Charlie Christian stuff was magic because of Christian's muscular confident lines, and this spirit can find it's way into clarinet/lap steel blends. Django seemed preferred guitar/ clarinet blends in the later years - and when he played with French clarinetist Hubert Rostang in the post-Grapelly era, it was truly intoxicating. Nuages, Manoir des Reves, and other dreamy tunes invite reed/steel blends. Back to clarinet: the key is never to scream and get shrill - always smooth, nimble and buttery. Best regards to all forumites. - Bob Markison

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 23 May 2007 2:07 pm

Well, the steel would clash as a contrapuntal instrument in a "duet" setting with the clarinet. Imagine New Orleans style jazz with a steel substituted in place of a (trom)'bone. I shutter (with a "t") to even think of it.

There are only 4 ways a steel was intended to be played and ever should be played:

1) As a solo instrument with the proper accompaniment and support from the instruments of lesser importance

2) As a pad instrument for other solo instruments of lesser importance

3) As a hole-filler (lick-dispenser)

And, most importantly...

4) Not with clarinet

Any and all other machinations and contexts will work neither artistically, satisfactorily, nor financially.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 23 May 2007 2:38 pm

We in Hawaii oft had the pleasure of hearing the great Randy Oness play his clarinet aside steel players, like his friend Jerry Byrd. No one who was fortunate to be at a gig that included Randy could say the clarinet didn't belong. His tasteful fills and solos were always the epitome of taste, tone and a lifetime of experience that few could even approximate. He's gone now, along with most of his contemporaries, but the sounds remain in the heads (and bootlegs) of those who witnessed the beautiful joining of the two.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 23 May 2007 2:54 pm

Are you kidding? You both fantastic !!

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 23 May 2007 3:08 pm

I have only played fretted instuments. And I have dabbled in the steel guitar and Cajun accordion.

I wish I would of studied the clarinet when I was younger. I think it's an incredibly versatile and sweet sounding instrument.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 23 May 2007 3:19 pm

This sound (Pua Almeida, steel...Randy Oness on clarinet) always worked for me: Analani E
But then the timbre of the clarinet is very different than the one in the video clip.

Can't find my own copy of this one... had to post a snipet from a CD retailer. Maybe somebody can post the whole song? There's another clarinet/steel solo in the middle.

*edited... originally thought the steel player was Tommy Castro... had another listen and it's got to be Pua.

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 23 May 2007 3:26 pm

Matt Rhodes wrote:There are only 4 ways a steel was intended to be played and ever should be played

What an open-minded statement...

Just think of all the great music that has evolved from instruments being used in ways that were not "intended".

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 23 May 2007 3:33 pm

Here is en example of a squareneck National tricone played in harmonies with flute - Paolo Conti and his flatmates in Paris playing Django Rheinhardt's "Douce Ambience" a few days ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BpB29uODGc

Tongue-in-cheek clip, but it works beautifully. (The "uke-player" actually pulls out a flute halfway through - sorry to spoil the surprise if you haven't seen this clip before.)

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 23 May 2007 3:59 pm

The problem for me is not with the clarinet, but the cheesy orchestration. I'd rather just hear him play solo. The clarinet does not make it better or worse for me.

I'm with Fred on this. I hate for art to be put in a box. I will make my own determinations on what I like or not and will always reserve the right to change my mind

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 23 May 2007 6:43 pm

Matt Rhodes wrote:Well, the steel would clash as a contrapuntal instrument in a "duet" setting with the clarinet. Imagine New Orleans style jazz with a steel substituted in place of a (trom)'bone. I shutter (with a "t") to even think of it.

There are only 4 ways a steel was intended to be played and ever should be played:

1) As a solo instrument with the proper accompaniment and support from the instruments of lesser importance

2) As a pad instrument for other solo instruments of lesser importance

3) As a hole-filler (lick-dispenser)

And, most importantly...

4) Not with clarinet

Any and all other machinations and contexts will work neither artistically, satisfactorily, nor financially.

AH isn't living in a small confined box wonderful? c'mon Matt, just because, you haven't heard something you like doesn't mean it doesn't work. 4 rules seriously? Time to expand the horizons. steel in a dixieland setting works great. It's all about arranging and listening to other players.The choice of electric or acoustic could play a part in tonal qualities but, it could still work either way.

Kay Das · Post by **Kay Das** » 23 May 2007 6:57 pm

Acoustic steel guitar in a big band setting, with clarinet solo about three-fourths the way through...

http://www.hsga.org/membersrecordings/K ... rstand.mp3

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 23 May 2007 7:03 pm

"Kenny G's also a soprano saxophonerist. Probably the best reed player of the 20th Century. "

okay.

I am assuming that this was meant as a joke. But in case it's not let me point out:

John Coltrane
Bird
Wayne Shorter
Benny Goodman
Art Pepper
Lester Young
Coleman Hawkins
Sonny Rollins
Eric Dolphy
list goes on from here

ALL of which Kenny G was not qualified to carry their instrument cases.

I will place this post as the god damn dumbest post ever placed on this forum. And that is going some.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 23 May 2007 7:15 pm

Clarinet=Eddie Daniels.

Pat O'Hearn · Post by **Pat O'Hearn** » 23 May 2007 7:19 pm

is the clarinet a bad partner for a lap steel?

I’m inclined to say that Jeff’s groovin’ little Tommy Castro / Randy Oness Analani E example pretty well answers the question.

Ah, another new (for me) gem to try and find for the music collection. - thanks

-regarding the aforementioned influential sax players,

Cannonball Adderley
Stan Getz
Joe Henderson
Paul Desmond
Charles Lloyd
Ornette Coleman
Jan Garbarek
Archie Shepp
Gene Ammons
Albert Ayler
and
Roland Kirk -are a few more that come to mind.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Steel Guitar and Clarinet: bad combo?

Steel Guitar and Clarinet: bad combo?

Good combo...

....

Tricone and flute

Love it or hate it.....