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Topic: dobro> acoustic, or acoustic electric? |
Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 21 May 2007 2:39 pm |
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I'm sure most of the bluegrass type dobro players use an acoustic dobro played through a mic.
What do the acoustic electric dobros sound like, with a good pickup on it?
I've been lookin on Ebay for dobros, and there's a guy with username combatblade on there that has several B stock dobros for sale. Has anyone ever bought from him? He has a real good feedback rating.
Terry |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2007 3:25 pm
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I haven't bought from him, his ebay store is called Pick 'N Slide Music.
Are you talking about the guitars with an internal pickup? There is a Wechter/Scheerhorn that we like to fondly refer to as a "Frugalhorn" on there with a Schertler pickup installed, which is currently one of the best on the market (the pickup). To get a luthier to install one in an existing guitar, the parts plus labor runs into the $200 plus range.
I like the frugalhorn-a good guitar for the money.
I have a Fishman passive pickup in my Clinesmith (which is not quite three years old). If the Schertler had been available (it wasn't at that time), I would have had Todd Clinesmith put it in.
When I play in front of people, I have the Fishman pickup run into a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ preamp/direct box before going to the sound board, used in conjunction with a Shure SM-57 microphone.
The mix is about 65% microphone, and about 35% internal pickup.
Jerry Douglas has been working with Fishman and playing with a prototype under-the-saddle pickup which runs into Fishman Aura system, and this is combined with a microphone. I'm waiting to see what develops with that deal before I make any changes, but for my money as far as what is available right now, I'd go with the Schertler.
A number of bluegrass guys use a mike only, but if you are playing with as is sometimes the case with dobro players-electric guitars, keyboards, or drums, then the internal pickup can really help the cause and cut through the mix.
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Mark |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 May 2007 4:16 pm
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
To get a luthier to install one in an existing guitar, the parts plus labor runs into the $200 plus range.
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Mmmmm...... the Schertler Basik is currently listed at $292.50 at Elderly..
Steinar
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"Play to express, not to impress"
Website - YouTube |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2007 4:38 pm
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Steinar, at Elderly they are listing for that price the pickup along with the small outboard preamp. You don't have to use that preamp.
I believe Todd, and Brad Harper, install the pickup itself in the guitar for $200, which covers the cost of the pickup only and the labor for the installation.
It is my understanding these can be a little tricky to install, and if I ever make the switch-I probably won't attempt to do it myself.
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Mark |
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Dave Harmonson
From:
Seattle, Wa
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Posted 21 May 2007 4:53 pm
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| I've had the Schertler for about a year now. It replaced the Fishman. I use the preamp that it comes with and haven't tried with anything else. I do run it thru another Fishman preamp EQ, which isn't necessary but I usually run it thru the same line as my acoustic/elec. guitar, so I send both of them to an A/B switch. Bottom line is, I've tried almost everything to amplify dobro and the Schertler is heads and shoulders above anything else I've heard. You don't need to mic it , cause it's got a great acoustic sound and plenty of volume. I've used with acoustic acts and full electric bands and it cuts thru and still sounds right. The Fishman was decent but didn't have the tone, especially in the middle and low strings, and didn't have the volume without feedback to use with a louder band. I know they're a little spendy, but I probably spent at least 500.00 over the last twenty years trying to find something that works. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2007 5:15 pm
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Dave-your experience with the Schertler seems to be the norm, and once again, I wish I had the thing on my Clinesmith, but I can't afford to fork out the dough right now (along with waiting for the product release of the Fishman unit being trialed by Jerry Douglas).
When Brad Harper first installed it in one of his resos, he came back with the comment: "It makes the Fishman sound like an AM radio."
Other guys have posted in recent months about this pickup and that pickup for resos, but I don't know that any of them have done an A/B comparison to what they were using to the Schertler.
I have gotten my guitar to sound reasonably natural plugged into my 100 watt Carvin acoustic amp, but it sounds closer on the scale to truly natural when I have plugged my buddy's reso with a Schertler into that amp. The Fishman passive does something to "color" the sound, and you really have to spend some time to get it to sound decent.
It seems that among those that have tried it, with correct installation - it's "no contest."
Todd Clinesmith used to offer both the Fishman and the McIntyre reso pickups as an option for his guitars, but since the Schertler came along he has dropped both of them and now only recommends Schertler.
And to get a Wechter/Scheerhorn for a good price with the Schertler installed - that's a pretty gig worthy guitar to have until one can order their "dream dobro."
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Mark
Last edited by Mark Eaton on 21 May 2007 5:30 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 21 May 2007 5:21 pm pickup
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| Quote: |
| Are you talking about the guitars with an internal pickup? There is a Wechter/Scheerhorn that we like to fondly refer to as a "Frugalhorn" on there with a Schertler pickup installed, which is currently one of the best on the market (the pickup). |
I saw that Wechter/Scheerhorn in pick n slide store on Ebay. The one I saw had a small flaw in it that was the reason it was marked as B stock. I think it was around $890 or somewhere close to that. I could be getting it mixed up with another dobro on there not positive.
So that would be a good dobro with the Schertler pickup in it then?
I played at a church singing Sat night, and even though they micked my dobro I couldn't hear it, and my wife was setting in the audience, she couldn't hear it either above the Piano, electric guitar bass etc. This is the reason I was asking about the acoustic/ electric dobro. I think the next one I get just might be one of those Wechter/Scheerhorn with the schertler pickup in it. Thanks |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2007 5:27 pm
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Terry, I think you and I are talking about the same guitar.
Didn't you get a Gold Tone Beard a while back?
You could have one installed in that - but if you have to ship it somewhere and go through the whole nine yards, you're probably better off getting one of those Frugalhorns with the Schertler already installed.
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Mark |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 21 May 2007 5:53 pm Goldtone
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Mark, I got a Beard Goldtone mahogany standard a couple weeks before Christmas. I like the sound of this little dobro. I wonder what the cost would be to ship it and have the Schertler installed? Got a ballpark figure?
I could sell my Goldtone, and I just sold an amp for $350 and I got a couple hundred in Paypal. I'd just about have enough to get one of the Wecther/Scheerhorn with the pickup in it. Which do you think would sound the best, the mahogany, the Maple, or what?
Terry |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2007 6:20 pm
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It may in fact cost more to take an existing guitar and have the luthier disassemble it, and install the unit, and then reassemble it, than when one has one installed by a luthier when a guitar is being built (hence the $200 from Todd and Brad on ordering a new guitar).
Boxing and shipping the guitar is going to run ballpark about $40 each way...see how it's starting to add up?
It's my understanding that all of the Wechter/Scheerhorns are made of laminate wood, so there won't be much of a difference in sound from one to the next - but the most expensive one, the Rob Ickes model, must have something that differentiates it - people seem to talk more about that one.
A lot of it is in the setup-maybe Brad Bechtel will chime in here-he got his W/S from Nashville dobro ace Johnny Bellar, and I was able to play it a couple months ago, and it sounds really good. I don't know who set it up...Brad?
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Mark |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 21 May 2007 6:42 pm Wecther/Scheerhorn
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The guy on Ebay has a Rob Ickes model B stock for $1099. It has the that pickup in it also.
I might could scrape up the extra bucks. But then, I reckon I'd need an acoustic amp if I couldn't plug into the sound system. This seems to be getting more expensive every post. 
Terry |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 May 2007 7:04 pm Re: Wecther/Scheerhorn
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| Terry Sneed wrote: |
This seems to be getting more expensive every post.
Terry |
So what else is new in the wonderful world of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)? 
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Mark |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 May 2007 7:55 pm
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Schertler makes a number of different pickups, but the one that is being used in dobros is the Schertler BASIK.
The BASIK is actually a condensor mic and requires phantom power of 10V or less. You can buy the pickup in combination with a cheap 1.5V supply, with an expensive outboard preamp/power supply, or with an XLR to TRS phantom power convertor that plugs into a standard phantom-powered mic input.
The 1.5V supply can be converted to a 9V supply for more headroom.
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Lynn Oliver
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Dave Harmonson
From:
Seattle, Wa
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Posted 21 May 2007 9:26 pm
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| What I'm using doesn't need Phantom power but has a simple pre-amp with 9 volt battery. The model of the pick-up is Basik-Reso. It works great through PA system. I haven't broke down and got an acoustic guitar amp, but I've played through a Fender Acoustasonic and SWR California Blond and both sounded good. There's only so much gear I want to bring to the gig every night though. |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 May 2007 10:25 pm
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| Not sure whether you meant the pickup or the preamp don't require phantom power. The preamp does not, but it does supply the required phantom power to the pickup. |
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Bob Bowman
From:
Staffordshire, England
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Posted 22 May 2007 3:03 am Schertler
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Lots of info on www.schertler.com
The German dealer Pro-Arte has the full Scheerhorn Reso outfit at 292 Euros, the Basik pickup on it's own seems to be around 150 Euros. The pdf from the sites on fitting doesn't look tot complex, but I've never taken a reso apart!  Maybe it's time to get the tools to my newish Regal!
Cheers Bob |
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David Ward
From:
White Rock, BC,Canada
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Posted 22 May 2007 8:12 am
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Terry, I have bought from Combatblade and found him to be an honest eBay seller.
David |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 22 May 2007 1:29 pm Thanks
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Thanks to all you guys for your help and info.
If I get one, I'd want to get the Rob Ickes model, so I'd have to scrape up some more cash. I'll hang on to my Gold Tone a while longer because I really don't want to upgrade untill I can call myself a Dobro player. Hmmm, I may have this Goldtone a lot longer than I anticipated. 
Terry |
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