Emmons all pull help needed

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 17 May 2007 5:07 pm

I have an Emmons Legrande. I raise the 6th string to A with the floor pedal and lower it a whole tone with a lever. When I try to adjust the nylon hex nut to get the whole tone lower, it messes up the 6th string tuning. It doesn't really alter the 1/2 tone floor pedal pull. It just makes the 6th string tuning with no pedals or levers go sharp. In other words, I can't get the 6th string to lower a whole tone. It's pretty close, but needs to go down just a bit more. Is there something I'm overlooking or is it just a matter of providing more travel in the crossbar for the whole tone lower? I use a .22 plain and don't want to change that.

Ken

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 17 May 2007 6:02 pm

Ken, you can either adjust your stop to allow more travel, or move the pull rod one hole farther away from the cross shaft on the bellcrank.

Johnny Harris · Post by **Johnny Harris** » 17 May 2007 7:36 pm

Ken, I sent you private message on tuning the whole tone lower.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 17 May 2007 10:47 pm

Hi Ken, Johnny might have already got you fixed up but something to look for is the split tuner allen screw in the end of the changer may be stopping the lower. It may need to be backed out some. Also, I had a problem on Rudy's guitar lowering the 6th string a whole tone and found that the lowering finger was hitting the something on the endplate just before the lower was complete. I have forgotten exactly what it was but I had to remove some aluminum I believe on the edge of the changer window in the endplate. I have never seen that on any other Emmons. I would think the problem would be that the split tuner is in too far. However, if you are using the split (correctly) that should not be the case. Anyway, hopefully, Johnny has you on the right track. If I can help, let me know.

Johnny Harris · Post by **Johnny Harris** » 21 May 2007 6:57 pm

Ken,I forgot to mention that I also use a .022 plain and I don't think that is your problem, and, from my limited experience, there should already be plenty of travel in the lever.
It seems to me that when I got mine out of whack a few years ago, that what I found is that maybe I had the split-tuner backed out too far, and in the process of tuning the half-tone with the nylon nut, I got it too tight against the finger, which was changing the open tuning, I believe that after I backed the nylon nut off several rounds, re-tuned the open, the the full lower at the split tuner, and the half-tone at the nylon nut, my problem was solved. Maybe Jerry will chime in again with another thought.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 21 May 2007 7:34 pm

I will chime in again. Ken, if you don't have it working yet I would suggest the simplest thing to check first. If I read what you stated correctly you might just be tuning it wrong (or I misread it).
First, back the split tuner allen screw out several turns to get it out of the way. You should tune the string open to Ab, then tune the pedal to raise to A, next engage both the pedal and knee lever and tune the half tone note G with the NYLON lowering tuner, then when you release the knee lever and pedal then engage the knee lever only you should be slightly flat on the F# and you turn the split tuner allen screw clockwise to bring the F# note up to pitch. Is this the way you are tuning it? If this doesn't solve the problem let me know. We might need to move the pull rod further down away from the pivot as the raise finger might be moving forward when you try to lower.
Jerry

Johnny Harris · Post by **Johnny Harris** » 22 May 2007 3:11 am

Ken,I think Jerry has it nailed down on the correct way to tune it, and I suggest one other thing.
Before you tune the open, also back off the pedal raise nylon tuner a round, or two. It seems possible that if it is over-tuned just a little, it may be holding the finger just a little sharp in the at- rest position.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 May 2007 6:20 pm

Ken - I had this problem on my SKH Legrande when I first got it. It came with the half-tone 6th string lower. I had to open up the stop to give more travel on both the 4th and 6th strings to get all the raises and lowers to work as I wanted them, but I still had a slight problem even then.

That residual issue was fixed by figuring out how to adjust the split tuning screws properly, exactly as Jerry outlines. Recall this thread on the operation of these split tuning screws: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=104579

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 22 May 2007 7:11 pm

Thanks Johnny,Bob,Jerry and Dave for the help. I'm going to try a few things. I agree that the nylon nut may be overturned. I'm going to back it out a few turns to provide a little slack. I noticed that the pull rod was in the hole nearest the crossbar. I may move that out a to the next whole if I have to. I was trying to not have any more travel in the lever than it already has. Like I mentioned in my original post, it doesn't have far to go to be in tune to the full lower, just a very slow waver(beat) as it is now.
I'll let you know how it comes out and I appreciate the help.

Ken

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 27 May 2007 12:39 pm

I think I've got'r fixed now. I adjusted the stop on the lever. As mentioned before, the 6th string only needed to be lowered very small amount more to be in tune.

Thanks again guys for the help.

Ken