| Author |
Topic: PSG building project |
Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:46 am |
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| I have a project going on to build a double 10 with 9 pedals and 8 knees. And id like to share all the moments with you all when i begin to assembly it so check it out if youre interrested |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:49 am
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okay here i have lathed the undercarriage parts like the puller axles and the changer axle and also the the axle holderplate and from here on im waiting for the endplates and necks and changer and keyheads to come from milling but ill show some 3d pics of the design |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 1:43 am
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here i have these 3d screenshots of an assembled d10 i dont have designed the pedalbar yet so it isnt in this picture but here are most of the parts that are designed ready and are in milling process
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Darvin Willhoite
From:
Roxton, Tx. USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 5:46 am
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This will be interesting, and should help some lesser informed players see what actually is involved in building one of these beasts.
_________________
Darvin Willhoite
MSA Millennium, Legend, and Studio Pro, Reese's restored Universal Direction guitar, a restored MSA Classic SS, several amps, new and old, and a Kemper Powerhead that I am really liking. Also a Zum D10, a Mullen RP, and a restored Rose S10, named the "Blue Bird". Also, I have acquired and restored the plexiglass D10 MSA Classic that was built as a demo in the early '70s. I also have a '74 lacquer P/P, with wood necks, and a showroom condition Sho-Bud Super Pro. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 5:47 am
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Hi Jani,
I for one, will be following this project with the greatest of interest.
Initial couple of questions:
- It sounds like you are making most or all of the parts yourself, from "scratch". Please be more detailed on this point.
- Looks like the cross shafts are round? If so, why round as opposed to hex or square?
- Exact description of material in body and neck? If wood, exact type? If plywood/formica, what type and thickness of plywood? Also, please list thickness.
I'll be sure to have more ques down the line. Keep up the great work!
Bent |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 5:50 am
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Welcome to the forum, JP! The Nordic branch seems to growing lately.
As I am trying to find time to do the same as you, this is very interesting. (So far I only have the pull rods, two pedals, four knee levers, the pedal connectors, the aluminum frame rails and some other minor parts finished. Since my workload seems to increase every month, it will take me a couple of years to get it done...)
Your project looks 100% professional. Maybe the styling could deviate a bit more from the generic emmons/fessy/derby/williams/msa/rains etc look - but that's just my weird taste.
What parts will be made from scratch, and what parts will be bought? In what ways will it differ from the common makes? Material choices? Parts sources? Please tell us more! |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 5:54 am
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Jani,
Forgot one ques:
What have you thought of doing with this design in addressing the dreaded 'cabinet drop'?
You mentioned there was no cabinet drop in your first one. To date, there has been no pedal steel made without any CD at all..from what I read and hear anyway.
Bent |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 7:06 am
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What CAD program are you using?
JE:-)> |
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Curt Langston
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 10:43 am Hard row to hoe.........
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| All said and done, it would be cheaper to just buy one. The CAD drawing resembles a Magnum anyway. Why not just give ole Bobbe Seymore a call, and start playing! |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 11:26 am Re: Hard row to hoe.........
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| Curt Langston wrote: |
| All said and done, it would be cheaper to just buy one. The CAD drawing resembles a Magnum anyway. Why not just give ole Bobbe Seymore a call, and start playing! |
But that is not really the point of this experiment is it, Curt?
A man wants to use his builders talents and more power to him for doing so.
Maybe remembering the old saying will help illuminate what Jani is doing:
"Build a better mouse trap, and they will beat a path to your door"
Positivity wins..the way I see it anyway  |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:05 pm
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| Bent Romnes wrote: |
| "Build a better mouse trap, and they will beat a path to your door" |
That statement is only true if they know that you did it and where to find you. |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:13 pm
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| Bent Romnes wrote: |
Hi Jani,
I for one, will be following this project with the greatest of interest.
Initial couple of questions:
- It sounds like you are making most or all of the parts yourself, from "scratch". Please be more detailed on this point.
- Looks like the cross shafts are round? If so, why round as opposed to hex or square?
- Exact description of material in body and neck? If wood, exact type? If plywood/formica, what type and thickness of plywood? Also, please list thickness.
I'll be sure to have more ques down the line. Keep up the great work!
Bent |
thanks for your interrest!
about the parts. every single part have their own scetch and they are measured in "mm" every corner of each part and the best of it all as you se the 3d pic its all assembled
 and in the application if there is some measures that dont fit the application doesnt place the part and also you can make a 3d animation of each parts movement
about the crosshafts. why i make round is becuase the puller is like a clamp, as aluminum is a softer metal, and when you clamp aluminum on aluminum it bites hard and and there will be friction and then they wont be able to move around until you lose the clamp and then turn around. and one reason it is round is that if the pullers rod is a little bit longer and you want a shorter distanse then you lose the pullerclamp and turn it until you have the perfect distance
materials i use are 6000 series aluminum and that means its seawater resistant aluminum the same sort they use on boat industry and its harder sort and better to mill. if i could get then i would make of 6061 series aluminum but thats again what they use in aircraft industry and that sort of aluminum has a titan alloy, and thats very expensive and its very hard to get here, but i know that there is a company in sweden that sells aircraft aluminum but like i said its very expensive of what i have heard.
and about the wood i use on this first one i used vener wich had every second ply birch and then teak.But this next one is going to be of finnish natural birch. there are other sorts of birch that have their fibres like maple but they are much harder to machine on. the thicknesses are the front and the back panel are 18.5 mm excactly and the front necks bottom thickness is 22 mm and the back neck is 17 mm
and there will be more wood in it cause the necks will be in two parts the bottom is birch wood that is wider than the top neck. and the top neck is aluminum that have inlayed frets.
and just ask me more if ya wanna know |
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Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:18 pm
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I've built my own guitars before.... it wouldn't keep me from buying another builders guitars or another companies... to the contrary it made me respect how hard it is and what kind of skill, talent and patience it takes to make a wonderful instrument. I love these kinds of threads. They are inspiring and interesting and I learn a ton... and it makes me respect the talents and skills of others...
I'll come back to this one everyday! |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:24 pm
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| Per Berner wrote: |
Welcome to the forum, JP! The Nordic branch seems to growing lately.
As I am trying to find time to do the same as you, this is very interesting. (So far I only have the pull rods, two pedals, four knee levers, the pedal connectors, the aluminum frame rails and some other minor parts finished. Since my workload seems to increase every month, it will take me a couple of years to get it done...)
Your project looks 100% professional. Maybe the styling could deviate a bit more from the generic emmons/fessy/derby/williams/msa/rains etc look - but that's just my weird taste.
What parts will be made from scratch, and what parts will be bought? In what ways will it differ from the common makes? Material choices? Parts sources? Please tell us more! |
thanks for your kindness Per
i have mensured this what i have from a mci but then the changer is a little of mine own idea, like it is fun to experiment with what fits and what doesnt
and all parts will be milled and made from scratch and there are many materials that i get from my work.
and all parts are made of 6000 series aluminum wich they use in the boat industry and the changers axle is 15 mm diameter and 105 mm long and its casted axle a 304 stainless steel and that i get from my work too and its one of the finest serie of stainless you can get. and the common makes is that every one makes the same in a different way if i understod you right heheh. and also wood is included in this project itl be finnish birch if i dont get birdseye maple but then i have to sell my television. |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:25 pm
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| John Fabian wrote: |
| Bent Romnes wrote: |
| "Build a better mouse trap, and they will beat a path to your door" |
That statement is only true if they know that you did it and where to find you. |
Right, and in Jani's case both these things are true.
They know he did it...in fact they have a running report on how and when, plus they all know he lives in Finland. |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:31 pm
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| Bent Romnes wrote: |
Jani,
Forgot one ques:
What have you thought of doing with this design in addressing the dreaded 'cabinet drop'?
You mentioned there was no cabinet drop in your first one. To date, there has been no pedal steel made without any CD at all..from what I read and hear anyway.
Bent |
well speaking of the cabinet drop. there maybe is a cabinet drop but you cant hear or se it... i tried to use my tuner and pushed pedals from and to and picked on strings if the tuner responded the way that there would be a droip and it didnt, so it can be in the way i tested it. Like they use to speak about that it comes from the changer. Well i took a thought of it and looked at my guitar and remembered on how i built and came to that result that the necks were solid that there was no milling inside the neck and also in the changer, ofcourse the changer is a bollt on changer. and there is no airoom between the changer and the neck. but there is so many thing i dont know but if some one gives ideas ill think about it ;D |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:31 pm
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| Jim Eaton wrote: |
What CAD program are you using?
JE:-)> |
i use autocad 2006 and then i have autodesk inventor 10 series |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:32 pm
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| Randy Phelps wrote: |
They are inspiring and interesting and I learn a ton... and it makes me respect the talents and skills of others...
I'll come back to this one everyday! |
Randy, my feelings exactly. The more the merrier. There are people sitting on lots of unique ideas, I am sure of that. These ideas need to get out to the masses.
Just look at the Jackson guitar with it's changer system in both ends. That idea just HAD TO get out. What a unique idea! Makes me want to say: Why didn't I think of that??? By the way, I got to look at, photograph and even try to play one of those last weekend. I am still all giddy about it! |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:36 pm
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| Randy Phelps wrote: |
I've built my own guitars before.... it wouldn't keep me from buying another builders guitars or another companies... to the contrary it made me respect how hard it is and what kind of skill, talent and patience it takes to make a wonderful instrument. I love these kinds of threads. They are inspiring and interesting and I learn a ton... and it makes me respect the talents and skills of others...
I'll come back to this one everyday! |
yeah its kind a fun but when you assembly the puller rods then i kinda go crazy and mad hehehe and then have to out and chill
and ofcourse i need ideas  |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:43 pm
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Jani,
About the cabinet drop:
I remember Ed Fulawka told me that he has 'air' between the neck and the changer. He said this has to be because of the movement in the different materials. Maybe this is of no consequence if say the whole thing(neck,changer plate) is made out of aluminum
Likewise in the key head end. In other words, if your neck is wood and it butts up to aluminum, there should be 'air' in between.
By the way, Ed's steels are the best I have seen so far...1 or 2 cents drop. By the way: I am no expert on this cabinet drop thing...Just basically asking a lot of questions in order to learn a bit. |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 12:52 pm
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| Bent Romnes wrote: |
Jani,
About the cabinet drop:
I remember Ed Fulawka told me that he has 'air' between the neck and the changer. He said this has to be because of the movement in the different materials. Maybe this is of no consequence if say the whole thing(neck,changer plate) is made out of aluminum
Likewise in the key head end. In other words, if your neck is wood and it butts up to aluminum, there should be 'air' in between.
By the way, Ed's steels are the best I have seen so far...1 or 2 cents drop. By the way: I am no expert on this cabinet drop thing...Just basically asking a lot of questions in order to learn a bit. |
yeah this also makes me scratch my head hahahah  |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 1:05 pm
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heres a little scratch of the neck
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 1:10 pm
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most interresting part is the keyhead
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Dave Burr
From:
League City, TX
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 1:14 pm
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Hi Jani. I look forward to following your adventure. One question I'm a little curious about is the decision to go with an open keyhead versus closed. I've read here on the forum that there are positive tonal characteristics to be had utilizing a closed or "one piece" keyhead (although it may be subjective opinion). What are your thoughts on the subject?
Respectfully,
David Burr |
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 26 Apr 2007 1:32 pm
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| Dave Burr wrote: |
Hi Jani. I look forward to following your adventure. One question I'm a little curious about is the decision to go with an open keyhead versus closed. I've read here on the forum that there are positive tonal characteristics to be had utilizing a closed or "one piece" keyhead (although it may be subjective opinion). What are your thoughts on the subject?
Respectfully,
David Burr |
hmmmm interresting .... but one thing is true that a closed keyhead is much easier to make. and also in my opinion that it also depends how much the keyhead is boltted. but tonaly .... then ill scratch my head hehe its much sience in these things haha  |
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