Professional Cleaners!

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 19 Apr 2007 4:41 am

Well Mr. Keane, I don't have a dog in this hunt and probably should keep my mouth shut, but because you have taken the opportunity to defend yourself (and this is a forum for opinions to be stated) here's my take. I'm not an expert on steel guitar mechanics but I've been around the block more than once in steel guitar repair. If you'll take the time to look at the picture posted, you'll see that the far right hand cross shaft mount bracket is rusted pretty well at the top, so much so that the rust has even penetrated the wood and I don't think that happened recently. Especially as recently as the guitar was sold. Too, there are no bends in the shaft holders which indicates the cracked apron probably happened when the guitar was disassembled. I personally don't think the guitar was damaged in shipment but as previously stated, I'm no expert. Just MHO and I think, as Lee Baucum stated, it's your responsibility to take care of the shipping insurance, not Frenchy's. In short, you'll have a hard time convincing most of the folks here that the damage really occurred in shipping. That even looks like very old glue in the photo. Again, just my opinion.

Phred

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 19 Apr 2007 4:54 am

If the guitar was damaged in shipment then the seller settles up with the shipper NOT the buyer! Buyer gets his money back--seller gets his money back from the shipper--insurance company usually gets the guitar unless a deal is made with the seller.

Who glued up the crack in the apron???

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 19 Apr 2007 5:03 am

That seems like a fair question.

Don Poland · Post by **Don Poland** » 19 Apr 2007 5:12 am

I can't help but wonder if the shipping company put that obviously old glue in the crack to help disguise their blunder???

Do the right thing and give the man his money back!!!

David Collins · Post by **David Collins** » 19 Apr 2007 5:19 am

Like Fred, I realy have no dog in this fight except:

As a manufacturer and shipper of goods, we ship our product all over the US almost daily. When one of our customers notifies us of shipping damage, which does occur on occasion, we IMMEDIATELY ship out replacement product at NO COST to the customer, or if THEY prefer, we refund their money.

Any claims made with the shipper are made by US, the seller, NOT the customer.

Lee and Bill are indeed correct.

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 19 Apr 2007 7:27 am

Brian. It is the shippers responsibility to make the damage claim. However, if the shipping company determines the instrument wasn't packed sufficiently to meet their standards, then they will most likely deny the claim.

In any event, it sounds like you're in a no-win situation with this, and the best you're going to get is $150.00, and judging from the detailed photos I saw, this is indeed a far cry from what it would cost to repair this guitar! There is an awful lot of rust under the guitar, and that tells me a lot about the guitar right there.

In any case, if you want to send me your guitar, I'll make all the necessary repairs to it, and refurbish it as best as possible, and all it will cost you is the shipping. The only "strings attached" will be the Jagwire's I put on it.

Hope this helps.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 19 Apr 2007 7:37 am

I believe UPS has changed their policy on insurance claims. Now the receiver of the package also "owns" the insurance policy and needs to file the claim. That's what our UPS store informed me last time I shipped.

I don't know about the other shippers, Fedex DHL, ect. if they have changed their policy on insurance. Seems there were plenty of cases of fraud. Item received and claimed damage, person who shipped it can't see the damage, so has to take the word of the receiver. Shipper files claim and it gets pretty hairy from then on.

One thing about it, if you receive a package and it's obviously damaged, TAKE PICTURES, and get the driver' inspection/signature BEFORE he drives away, and possibly have him take it back to the terminal/local store and open it there, in their presence. Then if the item is truly damaged, it's very hard for the shipper to deny the claim. Trouble with this proceedure is it demands that you stay home to receive the package, and the hassel of going to your local UPS store. But in this case, it would clear up this thread, as to what really happened---damaged in shipping or truth in advertising.

I ALWAYS pay the shipper the extra $20 to pack high dollar stuff. No way can they deny a claim, saying it wasn't packaged correctly, when THEY the "experts" packed it. I always demand they box it, bubble wrap the box, and box it again. And you the customer packing your own item is the biggest "loop hole" they have, to deny a claim. I like the idea of putting the insurance in the buyers name so any claims are handled easier at that end. JMHO

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 19 Apr 2007 7:49 am

duplicate

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 19 Apr 2007 7:50 am

Danny Hullihen wrote:Brian. It is the shippers responsibility to make the damage claim. However, if the shipping company determines the instrument wasn't packed sufficiently to meet their standards, then they will most likely deny the claim.

In any event, it sounds like you're in a no-win situation with this, and the best you're going to get is $150.00, and judging from the detailed photos I saw, this is indeed a far cry from what it would cost to repair this guitar! There is an awful lot of rust under the guitar, and that tells me a lot about the guitar right there.

In any case, if you want to send me your guitar, I'll make all the necessary repairs to it, and refurbish it as best as possible, and all it will cost you is the shipping. The only "strings attached" will be the Jagwire's I put on it.

Hope this helps.

Danny, that is a very generous offer and a fine example of the brotherhood of the forum. I would be happy to kick in $25 or so to help defray your expense. Let us know if the guitar heads your way.

Brian LeBlanc · Post by **Brian LeBlanc** » 19 Apr 2007 7:56 am

- Here's the 1 pic of the undercarriage I was able to get from the "seller" SKIP...

- Of course it doesn't show "no stinkin crack"

- and of course, no crack is mentioned as that its "all original and needs nothing"

- what I though was lubrication turned out to be old glue where Skip must have tried to patch together

- I've got vintage guy who spec that the glued/repair is well over a week old!

- be happy to email Pics to anyone interested

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Apr 2007 8:06 am

you can sort of see the crack in the far upper left corner, but you'd have to know it was there and really be looking for it to find it from that picture IMHO. Thats a shame. Ive learned to stay out of these things..and yet here I am posting...

Im not very smart, but you all know that by now.

Hope it works out for everyone involved.

Brian LeBlanc · Post by **Brian LeBlanc** » 19 Apr 2007 8:25 am

Yeah; that's where I'm at...

deciding on rehab (& knowing the sodid historY)

Or sell as Project Guitar

...(all original and needing nothing of course)

unless Skip suddenly develops a conscience !

David Collins · Post by **David Collins** » 19 Apr 2007 8:53 am

Steve Stallings- GREAT IDEA !!

Danny, count me in for $25 also.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 19 Apr 2007 9:07 am

I think Skip buying the guitar back is the perfect idea, seeing that he wants another one due to missing this one. Makes perfect sense to me.

David Fields · Post by **David Fields** » 19 Apr 2007 11:42 am

Brian:
Did you notice the reply that Danny gave you??? I don't know Danny, but that is beyond super. Brian, don't worry about the bad deal just take Danny up on his offer, and I don't have much spending cash right now but I will spot $25.00 also. Thanks Danny, and tell me where I can send the cash.

Dave

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 19 Apr 2007 12:02 pm

Hey Brian, I know you don't know me but here's what I've got to say:

Take Danny up on his offer.

I know you're probably not in a big hurry to get screwed again, so you might be a bit hesitant to take him up on his offer, but he's "one of the good ones" and isn't going to try to scam you.

That's a really generous thing that he's offering to do for you.

Brian LeBlanc · Post by **Brian LeBlanc** » 19 Apr 2007 12:09 pm

- Man, I appreciate the responses

- I thought Danny would pull out...AFTER THE PHOTOS!

- & I can cover a rehab $'s

- (even ater Taxes!)

- But...I'm still hoping Skip Keanes can recognize that his actions aren't the way to go...

John Coop · Post by **John Coop** » 19 Apr 2007 12:12 pm

Brian...I will donate some parts Danny might need. Coop

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 19 Apr 2007 12:20 pm

You guys are absolutly amazing to offer your help concerning this guitar, but the culprit needs to be brought down on this.

After seeing the pics he sent and reading his ad copy and then seeing his ad wanting to buy another guitar.....this is pure and simple thievery and fraud!!!

The seller Keanes is a dishonest rat until he offers a full refund and not some cheesy partial repair offer. How lame!! No excuse for something like this except someone with the morals of a muskrat.

David Fields · Post by **David Fields** » 19 Apr 2007 12:46 pm

You are right Bill....something needs to be done, especially if Keane is trying to buy another one now when he said that he his out of work. Why would he try to purchase another one if money is short?

Hey Bill, I finally got to a chance where I could buy that Maverick but the guy wanted more for the case and shipping, upped it to $400.00 total.
I want to say thanks again for overlooking my rookie mistake there. I may be getting luck and might get two steel guitars within a few months.

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 19 Apr 2007 1:01 pm

It's always touching and very heart-felt to see all the guys here come together to help a fellow player. I see that many of you are offering financial assistance to Brian, and even John Coop is offering some parts to upgrade this guitar! What can I say, Brian, it just don't get any better than that. In any case, the ball is in your court now, and it looks like you've got a lot of great guys supporting you here!

Although our offers to help you here won't make things right again with regards to you being deceived, but it indeed will make your guitar "better than right" when all is said and done. In essence, you'll end up with a guitar worth near double what you paid for it, and definately a great player!

You've givin the seller every opportunity to make things right with this, but I think it's obvious now that this just isn't going to happen, or at least I don't think so. In any case, my offer is still open to you, and it looks like you've got a lot of guys more than willing to help in any way they can.

For those of you that don't know me, or who I am, I own the Jagwire String Company, and I have worked on just about every brand of steel guitar there is, and have completely refurbished many as well. In fact, I have also helped in designing some of the newer ones. In any event, just a little history about me for those who might be concerned.

My special heart-felt thanks to all of you who have offered your help and assistance here, regardless of what Brian decides to do on this.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Apr 2007 1:18 pm

Danny, you are a stand up guy and, frankly, you are the definition of steel guitar community. Good on ya.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 19 Apr 2007 1:25 pm

I liked Jagwire Strings before, but I'm having trouble imagining why I would use anything else now.
KP

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 19 Apr 2007 1:39 pm

Danny I'll go the cost of the new Jags on both necks. Best I can do for right now. I don't use anything but Jagwires on any of my axes, and what better endorsement could one get than the offer Danny made.

Brian don't turn this guy loose even if you accept Danny's and our's offer. 1500 bucks is an awful cheap price to trade one's good name for. His ass is grass and I know where's there's a bunch of lawnmowers warming up. Thanks Coop you da man.

Phred

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 19 Apr 2007 1:40 pm

The vast majority of our Forum members are decent honest folks who have come here to be part of the great steel guitar brotherhood that this forum has become.

Is there any doubt now?

The Steel Guitar Forum

Professional Cleaners!

Who glued up the crack in the apron???

Shipper's fault or Truth in advertising??

Screw loose too!

Dave D & John C...

Did you see Brian?

Professional Fund $$

Parts

I agree