65ri Twin Reverb vs. Super Twin Reverb

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

I have the possibility to trade my 65ri twin in excellent condition for a super twin reverb (condition to be determined). I know some people swear by the super twin. Anyone want to caution me against such a move? Any down side (other than the back surgery bills)? I already have the chasis of the 65ri in a dual showman head cabinet and would do the same with the Super twin, so it wouldn't be quite the backbreaker it would otherwise.

Dan
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Durham, NH
dbmCk mUSIC

Marvin Born · From: Ohio, USA

I have both, a Twin Reverb RI and a 77 era Super Twin.

The RI has a warmer smooth tube sound and works well for 6 string guitars like Les Pauls and Gretsch Country Gentleman which is what I have, as well as an Emmons Legrande II I have one friend, with 40 years playing, who only plays the Super Twin and he only plays a Tele or Jag. He has 19 amps and the Super is his first choice.

The Super twin is pure brute. Six output tubes that last about 9 months if you play it loud. It is a very nice steel amp. Way too big for normal guitar. Mine will measure 190 watts RMS output (sinewave.) With six tubes it runs a little warm. So it likes its space. Take off the back panel if you play a long time.

The number one bad thing other than weight is, the second stage pre amp and phase inverter use a compactron tube that is hard to find and costs $25 each. However, I have never had one fail, so get a couple extra. This is the same as 1-1/2 12AX7 in one glass envlope The reverb tube is also a little strange, but it is an old TV tube so there are many around.

The Distortion is just gross, don't even think about using it. It does have a master volume so you can drive the input a little hard and be in the same room with it if you so desire. Normally it is a super, super clean amp, it hits about 180 watts before it flat tops.

The EQ on the other hand is great. Not only does it have the normal tone stack but it has a multichannel EQ that you can adjust to your tastes, then switch in and out with a foot switch. This is really sweet for steel. You can have a separate EQ for C6 and E9 if want.

The reverb is great, smooth and watery. Very similar the the Twin RI. Very 60 -70 sounding. I did replace my tank. I also added a bag to suspend the reverb like the more modern amps. It reduces the speakers talking to the reverb when the amp is really cooking.

There is pedal switched boost circuit. It normally runs about the same power as a Twin, push the switch and the power about doubles. Push the EQ and the boost, and the audience knows you are playing a solo.

The speakers are heavy duty, I think the square magnets ones are a little better sounding than the round ones, but both are big time loud. They have a more English sound than the Twin RI (it being Fender-American sounding) I have re-built two super twins so I have heard both. They are a little brassy at lower volume, since they have more mass in the cones and coils, than the Twin RI.

It will have some coupling caps that will need to be replaced and the power supply caps should be replaced. Todays caps are smaller so I doubled the capacity in the power supply. There is no voltage sag, when you push down on the pedal. It has the old black hand wired board so maintenance is easy compared to the printed circuit board in the RI. That amp is very hard to work on.

The amp is relatively quiet for a tube amp, about the same or a little higher noise floor than the Twin RI. You will want very high quality guitar cords.

A good way to say it would to compare the Twin RI as equal to a Jazz guitar like a Gretsch Country Gentleman with Chet playing it.... and the Super Twin is pure Nashville Telecaster. Or an Emmons S10 Push-Pull in all its glory.

I hope this doesn't scare you off, but that is what I know. I would be glad to answer any other questions you have.
Marvin

PS, the plastic trim around the speaker grill will crack and fall off. The all black looks very cool with a black steel.

David Doggett · Posted 10 Apr 2007 7:28 am

Can't add much to what Marvin said. I haven't tried a Twin RI. For pedal steel I have had '70s silver-face Twins, and now have a silver-face Dual Showman Reverb head. I have a Super Twin Reverb that I bought without speakers and promptly put in a head cab. I also got the earlier Super Twin (no reverb) that I also put in a head cab and keep in a practice space. I play pedal steel with all these heads through either two 15" JBLs or a single heavy duty Eminence 15. I think I actually like the tone of the STs best, but I usually opt for the lighter Dual head when I don't need the extra head room. The two switchable EQ settings on the ST are nice to have. And you should be aware that without the boost foot switch plugged in the default setting is boost off, which sounds about as loud as a silver face Twin. If you ever play with loud groups and find your volume pedal bumping with the Twin RI, the ST will cure that problem. If you never have volume deficiencies with the Twin RI, the only reason to get the ST would be the two switchable EQ settings.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Tonally, or power-wise, the ordinary Twins aren't even in the same league as the Super Twin. I used the Super Twin for many years, and it will (even with the "Boost" off) blow every other Twin away. I pushed 2 twelves and 2 fifteens with mine, shaking a stage the size of a motor-home, and it never missed a beat. Tubes easily lasted for several years, and the O.T. handled the 2-ohm load continuously without any problems (though I did install a cooling fan).

On the plus side...
More different tones than you've ever dreamed of. You simply can't imagine what this amp will do until you try it. The power is awesome, clean and clear, tube-warmth without distortion. Stock speakers are the best damn Jensens they ever made (read: most rugged and efficient).

On the minus side...
It's unGODly heavy, and some EQ settings will all but negate the built-in reverb. You'll probably want a stomp-box reverb or delay if you want lush 'verbs across the spectrum. Re-tubing, even every 3 or 4 years, can be costly, but also may not be required if you're not asking a lot from the amp. Like the others have said, the distortion isn't great, but with judicious juggling of the controls, you can get passable sounds, though it's probably easier to just buy a Boss-Tone. (That way, you won't be turning knobs all night.)

IMHO, even with all it's faults, it's still the most impressive combo tube amp ever made.

Dan Beller-McKenna · From: Durham, New Hampshire, USA

Thanks for all of the feedback folks. I guess I neeed to think very hard about whether I neeed the extra umph for what I do, and consider what it would cost to re-tube the STR (the owner now tells me it needs all new tubes).

Dan

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

Just curious, how does the Super Twin compare with the Super Six? Is it the same amp with different speakers?

Whoops, never mind. Answered my own question with a little research. I've never seen a Super Twin.

Edit: I don't get why I can edit my own posts without it showing up...kinda weird.
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Patrick

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Pat...if you edit posts very soon after posting, the "edited" footnote doesn't show up. Change something after an hour or so, and it does. I presume this feature is to let the poster correct simple errors immediately without the footnote, while still keeping a record of any changes made some time later (after the original post).

As you probably discovered, the Quad Reverb and Super-Six Reverb amps have the same chassis as the Twin Reverb. The Super-Twin Reverb, however, is an entirely different animal.

David Doggett · Posted 11 Apr 2007 8:29 am

It may be of interest to some that the Super Twins were made in the brief span of a few years when Paul Rivera (subsequently of Rivera amps) was in charge of Fender engineering. During this period Fender was becoming vaguely aware that their conservatively engineered, clean-to-the-top amps were loosing sales big time to the British amps (Marshall, Vox, etc.), which had fashionable crunch and early distortion, either through poor engineering, cost conscious engineering, or smart engineering that intentionally allowed for substantial distortion.

Rivera introduced the short-lived ST and the II line of new hand-wired tube amps that included amps such as the Champ II, Princeton II and Deluxe II. All sorts of bells and whistles were added, such as lead/boost controls, boosts on each of the tone knobs, Presence, etc. There was also a Fender 75 and Fender 140, which were essentially ultralinear transformer Pros and Twins with the second channel 5-band EQ like the Super Twin. Unfortunately, they still overengineered these to have almost not breakup, even at full volume. So these did not last long in the Fender lineup and are not popular with guitar players (except for the Champ II). But all of these Rivera era amps, with more clean headroom than their silver-face predecessors, and the additional EQ controls, make fantastic hand-wired tube amp bargains for steel players. In size, weight, and volume, the Princeton II (with the 12" EV speaker) and Deluxe II will give a Peavy NV 112 a run for its money, and will blow it away with tube tone.

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