EAR YES; Tabs no

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 3 Jul 2006 10:55 am

Here's an old tune by Bobby Williamson down Texas way. The sidemen essentially are the Country All Stars. The story has it, that while waiting for another star to arrive, the boys did some of their all time favorite instrumentals that the engineer just happened to record. Bobby Williamson arrived and they went ahead and did his session next. You can hear that sound!
But, listening to the words and the fills that Jerry Byrd incorporates into the tune, one can readily see how tabs just don't cut it. The ear for the lyrics and Jerrys' fabuous musical talents made a classic little song out of one that never really went anywhere on the charts.
Why not give it a listen. http://www.jerrybyrdfanclub.com/jerrysMusic/htm. [This message was edited by Ray Montee on 03 July 2006 at 11:58 AM.][This message was edited by Ray Montee on 03 July 2006 at 12:01 PM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 3 Jul 2006 11:02 am

BRAD! H-E-L-P!!!!!

I can't get it to come up!

Woaa is me!

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 3 Jul 2006 11:10 am

Ray
Try this ! http://www.jerrybyrdfanclub.com/Music\Come%20a%20little%20closer.mp3

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 3 Jul 2006 11:20 am

Ray, are you saying that JB was wasting our time by putting his instructional course in tab? Oh, say it aint so? Nobody uses tab by itself, you have to listen to the recording to get the phrasing and engage your relative pitch between your instrument and the recording. JB knew that Ray, how come you don't? Well, something is making you deaf and dumb and it's not tab. But, I'm not gonna fight with you on this Ray, so forget it.

Rick Batey · Post by **Rick Batey** » 3 Jul 2006 11:26 am

I like that one! Thanks Ray and Bob. [This message was edited by Rick Batey on 03 July 2006 at 12:42 PM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 3 Jul 2006 11:39 am

Thanks Bob! Muchly appreciated.

Jesse.......By no means do I mean to infer that there is NO PLACE for tab. I used to dig out many of those multiple pedal combinations by using tab.........but I was attempting to direct the attention of the newer folks that seem to want tab for a lot more songs that one might otherwise believe.

The tabs on back-up (is there such a thing?) do not provide the player with "the feelings" that Hughey and Byrd and other greats insert in the recordings they do.

I just tho't this was an excellent example of back-up when one listens to the lyrics. But who knows, perhaps I was wrong.

Jesse.....I'm gonna tell your mother if you don't change your attitude. Always wanting to "fight" or not fight, just in order to have your way? Now, now... I just didn't feel tab was the place to look for BACK-UP material.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 03 July 2006 at 12:43 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 3 Jul 2006 12:02 pm

Ray, Scotty has a great C6 NP book out on "backing up a singer" and it's in tab.

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 3 Jul 2006 12:16 pm

My, my, guys, wouldn't this piece be beautiful in TAB. Can anyone do it for us TAB guys?

Ray, this is exquisite playing by Jerry.
I have to keep playing it over and over. It has so much in it.

Aloha

Don

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 3 Jul 2006 12:25 pm

Beautiful tune Ray. Give us some more please!

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 3 Jul 2006 12:32 pm

Great cut, Ray. Bakelite thru Volutone amp ... right? JB does a lot of very subtle bar movement stuff in that one. The usual astounding intonation.

The other thread on tab said it all. Trying to learn with just tab is a dead-end road but tab with standard notation is a powerful tool. Just my opinion.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 3 Jul 2006 12:42 pm

Ray,

Many thanks.

Tuning - C diatonic?

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden, Derby and Fender guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 03 July 2006 at 01:48 PM.][This message was edited by Drew Howard on 03 July 2006 at 02:02 PM.][This message was edited by Drew Howard on 03 July 2006 at 02:10 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 3 Jul 2006 1:39 pm

Andy, you do realize that Don Helms, JB, Little Roy Wiggins, Stacey Phillips, Dewitt Scott etc, all have tab books out with CD's and no music notation and expects the student to use his ear along with the tab to get the phrasing right?

Your statement thus means that you’re saying all of these guys have put out learning aids that are dead ends?

Your friend John M, advocates classical guitar type music notation and no tab, but he might have edited that out of his post by now along with all the rest of the stuff you didn't get to read last night?

I’m gonna email my phone number to you guys I’m having this on going debate with over tab and spare the rest of the guys my posting on the subject, o.k. It’s a holiday so cell phones are free I believe.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 3 Jul 2006 2:16 pm

Jesse, sure .. I realize that. An audio source that gives you an idea of the rhythm is certainly a huge help. You guys who are pros/teachers can debate this some more. I'm done for this subject.

I've been reading about the fascinating history of Tiki bars and tropical drinks today (we owe it all to Filipino bartenders) and frankly, I'd rather just buy you an icy, cold Zombie than continue talking about tab. Sorry 'bout the topic drift.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 3 Jul 2006 2:43 pm

Fair enough Andy, cheers...

Robert Leaman · Post by **Robert Leaman** » 3 Jul 2006 4:14 pm

This a number on the album, Hi-Fi Guitar, Jerry Byrd At The Steel Guitar, Decca DL 8643. The song is "Come A Little Closer" by Boudleaux Bryant, according to the album cover. Jerry Byrd is shown on the cover with a seven string Rickenbacker. Jerry Byrd's accompaniment is Hank Garland and Grady Martin on electric guitars, Ray Edenton and Harold Bradley on rhythm guitars, and Bob Moore on bass. There are 12 excellent numbers on the album.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 3 Jul 2006 9:30 pm

I have always favored reading actual musical notation over reading tablature. Earlier in my teaching days I struggled teaching notation to the point whereby I finally surrendered to using tablature. The results were almost instantaneous! The problem with teaching notation on steel is many fold, not the least of which is the assorted tunings which are unique to steel.
Also, I have often wondered why instruction book notation for steel is always written one octave higher than actual pitch ? I don't use that system when teaching notation, preferring instead to teach (those who are interested), in actual pitch so that they can pick up most any score and read it.
http://www3.telus.net/public/lake_r/

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 3 Jul 2006 10:27 pm

That guy plays almost dead-on like this guy I know, Ray Montee!

Adam Davis · Post by **Adam Davis** » 4 Jul 2006 12:58 am

Historically, all guitar music is transposed up one octave. That way, it lies more in the center of the treble clef and is easier to read.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 4 Jul 2006 1:29 am

The majority of today's steel picking ...(read: "majority") ... is done on the first three or four strings when using any modern tuning. Back in the olde days of "A" Major tuning, (where the steel player actually played melody and accompanied him/herself), I could understand the purpose of octave transposing. It's hardly necessary in today's world. Certainly, no arranger I've ever met would even consider writing a score in that manner were he/she desirous of using a steel guitar in an arrangement. You can be sure it would be written 'concert' and be expected to be played as such. Every instrument you can probably name is written accordingly...(actual 'concert' pitch)...except for the guitar.
http://www3.telus.net/public/lake_r/

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 4 Jul 2006 8:35 am

George, horns are transposed instruments. Alto sax is written a minor third off concert and soprano and tenor sax, trumpet and trombone are a whole step away from concert. The horn fingering charts are written to go along with this. You have a C note coming out of the alto horn but your supposed to call it A on your fingering and music notation. I write for all horns in C Clef for myself mostly and don't pay attention to the actual octave so much; I stay around the staff lines relative to the horns octave ranges. I can't see the use of calling a note a different pitch from the piano note reference point. Charles McPherson told me he wished he had learned to do it that way with his fingerings as a first choice.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 4 Jul 2006 10:06 am

Yes Jesse .... I fully realize how horns are written as I have been very active in an 18 piece Big Band for the past 14 years...click: www.trocadero.ca .... The point I'm making (for example), is that "middle C" is written as high C on guitar methods whereas arrangers will always write it where it belongs, on the first leger line below the treble clef, (and so on). Every guitar chart I have ever read in the Big Band is written as per pitch, not one octave higher.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 4 Jul 2006 10:55 am

What's a teble clef?

What's a Trocadero?

Inquiring minds want to know.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 4 Jul 2006 11:42 am

TREBLE CLEF: dahhh! .... Every Good Boy Does Fine. (That's where they put all those chicken tracs which some refer to as notes Ray).

TROCADERO: This is a well known name in ballroom history in both the US and Canada. Years ago, (1940 era), we here in Edmonton had the beautiful Trocadero dance ballroom which featured the better musicians of this area. Sadly, in the late fifties the wrecking ball came along and did its thing. Ballroom dancing gave way to rock 'n roll.

In 1991, I formed a 9 piece band. This band expanded to 18 within 3 years. Many of the members, including myself, were original Trocadero ballroom musicians...hence we chose the name: "Trocadero Alumni Orchestra". As members passed away, (or departed the band), younger musicians came in. We eventually dropped the word "Alumni". Today, I am the sole remaining member of this great band (now the Trocadero Orchestra) formed in 1991.

[This message was edited by George Keoki Lake on 04 July 2006 at 12:42 PM.]

Ron Brennan · Post by **Ron Brennan** » 5 Jul 2006 4:38 am

Ray,

I have nothing cerebral to say, but thank you for giving my ears such a nice treat this morning.

When I heard this JB piece you posted, I can now go on the rest of this day!!

"Hearing is believing", eh?...TX
Rgds,
Ron

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JCFSGC member 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Stringmaster D8,
"67" Telecaster,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10's

[This message was edited by Ron Brennan on 05 July 2006 at 08:12 AM.]

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 5 Jul 2006 5:06 am

Edit to say ,
I drift to far on my reply !
what grate JB Stile !
Thanks Ray .[This message was edited by Bob Hickish on 05 July 2006 at 07:44 AM.]