How I Cut Half The Cabinet-Drop... And Got Better Sound

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 19 Mar 2007 3:38 am

I'm actually testing a .013 on E4. The tone is OK, and I think it drops a little less. Still testing.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 19 Mar 2007 3:44 am

Seems like it's a generally accepted principle with any instrument that the heavier a string you can use, the better the tone. I know I had a lap steel that came back from a repair once. It had been restrung by a "tech" (guitar player at the Gibson Custom Shop) with really light strings. I put the bar on the strings, and they went straight down to the fretboard... couldn't even play it!

I don't think lighter is the answer here...

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Mar 2007 7:43 am

since we are talking about this stuff..has anyone ever tried boiling their strings before putting em on the guitar? I ask because I read that Eddie Van Halen used to do that claiming the striongs stayed in tune better after boiling them for a few minutes.
dont know if that would do anything for cab drop. I havent tried it and doubt I will , my guitar stays in tune pretty well as is. anyone else tho?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Mar 2007 7:51 am

Re: boiling strings, I really don't think boiling them in water would cause any metallurgical changes at all, the temperature's just not high enough.

Also, lighter guages (than what we use now) would exacerbate tuning problems, as they would stretch more. (Plus, they'd sound very "whiny".) Cabinet drop on all modern pro-type steels I've played is minimal, and the "cabinet drop" issue is a red herring, nowadays.

Throw away your digital tuner and just play the durn thing!

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 19 Mar 2007 8:30 am

A friend of mine swore by it. He played 6 string and would take the strings off periodicly [sp] clean them and boil them in kerosene, put em back on. Said it was like putting new strings on.

FWIW...This is a true story.

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 19 Mar 2007 10:06 am

I can see the headlines now. "pot of kerosene on stove burns down house". I think I'll just go and spend $10 on a new set of strings.

ray qualls · Post by **ray qualls** » 19 Mar 2007 10:55 am

Don't remember who posted this pic but I'm sure lighter strings wouldn't hurt.

Matt Chase · Post by **Matt Chase** » 19 Mar 2007 2:14 pm

I can't talk with experience for pedal steels, but certainly the adage that "thicker strings=better tone" for 6-string guitars is a bit of a myth. It's fully related to how hard you pick the string.

If you dig into the strings (a la Stevie Ray) then you'll need a heavy gauge. If, like me (and Brian May, and Jeff Beck and others), you have a very light touch, thick strings sound awful and dull (I use 9s on my strats and haven't broken a string for at least 15 years).

I've read a good explanation somewhere about the physics involved, and it made sense at the time (although I promptly forgot it!). So, I would imagine that if you have a soft touch as a steel player, thin strings could well sound much better.

Matt

Martin Vigesaa · Post by **Martin Vigesaa** » 19 Mar 2007 8:09 pm

Matt Chase wrote:I can't talk with experience for pedal steels, but certainly the adage that "thicker strings=better tone" for 6-string guitars is a bit of a myth. It's fully related to how hard you pick the string.

If you dig into the strings (a la Stevie Ray) then you'll need a heavy gauge. If, like me (and Brian May, and Jeff Beck and others), you have a very light touch, thick strings sound awful and dull (I use 9s on my strats and haven't broken a string for at least 15 years).

I've read a good explanation somewhere about the physics involved, and it made sense at the time (although I promptly forgot it!). So, I would imagine that if you have a soft touch as a steel player, thin strings could well sound much better.

Matt

I agree. I cant imagine a 5/8" steel rod would sound too good as a 1st string.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 19 Mar 2007 8:26 pm

I agree. I cant imagine a 5/8" steel rod would sound too good as a 1st string.

Let's use a modicum of common sense, shall we?

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Mar 2007 9:30 pm

I think that it would be hard to play in tune with strings that light. The weight of the bar would be a much greater factor, bending the strings downward more at the point of contact.

Martin Vigesaa · Post by **Martin Vigesaa** » 20 Mar 2007 12:08 am

Michael Douchette wrote:
I agree. I cant imagine a 5/8" steel rod would sound too good as a 1st string.
Let's use a modicum of common sense, shall we?

OK 5/16"

I think almost any guage can work. It depends on the sound you want or what sound fits the song you are playing. Not everyone wants a full thick sound not everyone wants a thin sound. Perhaps a smaller diameter bar would help with the smaller guage strings.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Mar 2007 12:26 am

Duane Allman and Carlos Santana used .009" gauge string sets - that's why they got that thin, wimpy tone on "Black Magic Woman" and "Live at the Fillmore" I spoze. Hendrix used .009's tuned down low, John McLaughlin used .008's to .038's on his fire-breathing dragon stuff with the first Mahavishnu Orchestra - I guess we're just lucky he didn't want a good tone....

I usually use a standard gauge C6th string set tuned down to Bb6th and the tone on any given pitch is fatter and rounder than tuned up full - if thinner strings need less tension to reach an equivalent pitch, isn't that the same thing? It plain defies "common" sense. Until you subject the conjectures to some serious spectrographic analysis which proves something (oops, sounds like work), and then ALSO bind your results to a commonly-agreed upon standard of what good tone actually IS (Good luck with that!), all this tone talk is just synapse-squeezings anyway. I have had the experience with six-strings that a really heavy, dense guitar seems to "swallow up" light gauge strings and needs heavier ones to sound good, but I can only think it's something to do with a percentage weight difference - with even the lightest steel guitar at well ove 20 lbs., it's hard to see that that could matter.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 Mar 2007 10:37 am

A thicker string for the same pitch gives a thicker and louder tone. At least that's what I find when I switch an 0.009 G# string for an 0.012. I do that to get a better balance among the strings. If they were all lighter gauge, that might not be relevant. Thinner strings tend to have more sustain and richer overtones. At least that is what I find in comparing my thin strings to my heavy strings, but they are playing different pitches of course. Within reason, I guess lighter gauge strings across the board could be usable and would lessen the cabinet drop. It all depends on what you can tolerate in terms of a softer feel with the bar, intonation problems, and what your guitar can handle in terms of the longer pulls.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Mar 2007 3:49 pm

Once upon a time I said "Tone schmone, just play the durn thing!

I can see I may have to change that...

"Guages schmages, just play the durn thing!"

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 20 Mar 2007 7:41 pm

Mickey If It works For You That is just Wonderful. Most of the clowns On this forum Strings are so rusted Up they cant tell what gauge they Are. And the rest of Us clowns Are too lazy To change the strings Or dont Know How? bOb sells The Jaguars I Likeem. Randy.

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 20 Mar 2007 9:50 pm

The clincher would be to put on a set of heavier gauge strings and see if the cabinet drop increases. I'm also a string boiler from way back but for the purpose of making old dead sounding strings sound sparkling new (applies to wound strings). No biggie on guitar strings but a real life saver on expensive bass srtings.

My site

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 20 Mar 2007 11:40 pm

Try bending a set of 0.013s - not much rock to be found there. I bet the only reason Hendrix and those other 6-string shredders use very light strings is/was their need to bend strings with their fingers and achieve other effects only possible with soft strings. But this is totally NOT an issue for pedal steel, and I think b0b made the ultimate point – ultralight strings will detune severely from bar pressure alone, which will cause much bigger problems than some slight cabinet drop.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 21 Mar 2007 1:45 am

ultralight strings will detune severely from bar pressure alone

Unless, you don't press down too hard...

I usually use an "ultralight" bar, and since I'm used to it most of the pronouncements of what it should, and shouldn't, do don't seem to bear fruit. Some guitarists like John McLaughlin and Ingwie Malmsteen (!) use ultralight strings, on scalloped fretboards no less

, with high action

, and they achieve great intonation - this is because they are far, far better at what they do, than I am at what I do....

Practicing sixteen hours a day, at least for the first decade or so, seems to flatten out a lot of those pesky kinks that so afflict those of us who would rather post than play.

Dennis Schell · Post by **Dennis Schell** » 21 Mar 2007 8:20 am

David Mason wrote:Duane Allman and Carlos Santana used .009" gauge string sets - that's why they got that thin, wimpy tone on "Black Magic Woman" and "Live at the Fillmore" I spoze. Hendrix used .009's tuned down low, John McLaughlin used .008's to .038's on his fire-breathing dragon stuff with the first Mahavishnu Orchestra - I guess we're just lucky he didn't want a good tone....

LOL, I know whatcha mean! Myself and most of my electric guitar pickin' pals use .009 to .042 and I rarely see anyone buy anything else when hangin' around the music store unless it's .008 to .038...
(Personally, I find that too light, like playing on cooked spagetti, no "feel" for bends and too much "fret buzz". But those with a lighter "touch" and setup than me seem to get along fine with them.) If there's a "universal" string set for 90% of the players today though, I'd venture to guess that set is .009 to .042 for electric "lead" guitar. I doubt that many think there's anything "wrong" with their tone because of it...

JMO,

Dennis

Seems to me that in the last few decades, NO one uses the biggest Gretsch flatwounds they can find like I did as a youngster listening to Chet Atkins!

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 21 Mar 2007 9:47 am

ML, Once when i replaced the 3rd string with a heavier gauge string cause it was all i had there there was a noticable decrease, actually an elimination of, PSE (pesky sitar effect). But this may have been a problem specific to my instrument, being an older student model.

My site

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 21 Mar 2007 10:09 am

Regarding what David Mason wrote about Santana's, Allman's, Hendrix's and McLaughlin's tone with light gauge strings:

The lion's share of their tone recipes is the AMP! Any guitar with any strings is going to sound fat when played through an overdriven tube amp.

A steel player who wants to sound crystal-clean through a 300-watt solid-state amp has different considerations.

(Just a personal aside about McLaughlin with Mahavishnu: fantastic compositions, fantastic playing, but, IMO, for the most part, his tone sucked!)

Dennis Schell · Post by **Dennis Schell** » 22 Mar 2007 9:07 am

Brint Hannay wrote:Regarding what David Mason wrote about Santana's, Allman's, Hendrix's and McLaughlin's tone with light gauge strings:

The lion's share of their tone recipes is the AMP! Any guitar with any strings is going to sound fat when played through an overdriven tube amp.

A steel player who wants to sound crystal-clean through a 300-watt solid-state amp has different considerations.

(Just a personal aside about McLaughlin with Mahavishnu: fantastic compositions, fantastic playing, but, IMO, for the most part, his tone sucked!)

JMO, but I'd bet most "clean country pickers" also use a .009 to .042 guitar set. Nothing to do with "overdriven tube amps" vs "clean solid state". If you think "fat" strings are needed for good tone then you obviously LIKE the tone of "fat" strings. That doesn't mean they are necessary for "good" tone.....

Dennis

BTW I'd say FRESH strings are a key to "good" tone. I've been hard up at times and boiled my strings to "freshen up" their tone....It seems to help for a short time

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 22 Mar 2007 10:03 am

Is there any signal/sustain at all in a 008?

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 22 Mar 2007 1:08 pm

Dennis Schell wrote:

Nothing to do with "overdriven tube amps" vs "clean solid state".

?????

My point was, when you play through an overdriven amp, any differences there might be between lighter and heavier strings are largely lost, as the effect of the amp clipping has exponentially more influence on the sound produced. It might, however, make a difference when playing "clean".

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