I am very disappointed in steel guitar conventions and shows

Howard Parker · Post by **Howard Parker** » 19 Mar 2007 12:01 pm

Kids want the image and the flash.

Agreed...

Even a Dobro is sexier than a steel

Now you're scaring me....

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Mar 2007 12:04 pm

sexy dont matter if you never even get a chance to see one. could look like a tuba for all most poeple know
(insert Earnest Bovine Tuba playing photo here)

I saw my first steel about a year and a half ago at the age of 39. as a kid all I saw was rock, punk, metal....no steel. Cant want what you dont even know exists...hmmm...or can you

Brandon Ordoyne · Post by **Brandon Ordoyne** » 19 Mar 2007 12:15 pm

Starting around when I was 15, I always had a knack for the steel, but we never could afford musical instruments. Now at 25 almost 26, A few months ago I bought a Carter-Starter (which is up for sale if anyone is interested) and I now have a Pedalmaster SD-10 and are taking lessons. I can see where the price may have an affect on younger people than me and the time factor in learning the instrument would take up alot of time for a young person, say who has just got their drivers license, friends, partying, etc. They would have to be disciplined to practice. I am hoping to see more guys and gals my age playing, and keep this instrument going.
Brandon

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Mar 2007 1:05 pm

Gerald Ross wrote:Face it folks - the pedal steel or any steel you sit behind is not the sexiest instrument in the world...You can "pose" with virtually every other instrument. You can sling a guitar between your legs or behind your head. You can dance around with a horn etc. etc. Kids want the image and the flash.

True, the vast majority of young people want animation (though Slash is an exception), energy (read: loud), and image. Of course, rock drummers sit down and play too, but most of them have some antics...and some image (you know, "tats", Mohawks, or 18" of hair). You can have some age (grey hair's not completely uncool), but generally you can't be fat and slow (unless you have a valid reason...like being on drugs).

The way I see it, if Ted Nugent had had Chester B.'s garb, appearance, and demeanor, he would be quite unknown today.

Young people have all the music they can handle on their eyepods; to get them into a steel jam or convention, you need a lot of "show".

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Mar 2007 1:46 pm

Well I think kids have first got to get their minds right! Here is my receipe:

1. Make sure they know it is a country music instrument. You know, real old traditional country music, not the kind of music they may like if they call it country today.
2. Make sure they know it is a Chrisitan instrument. Play as many old time gosple numbers as you can, but please none of that sacred steel stuff. That's not steel guitar, that's slide guitar played like a pedal steel.
3. If they happen to go to a steel show and a rock and roll steeler comes on late in the night, make sure you walk out on mass. Pedal Steel is not for rock and roll. It is for traditional country. See point 1.
4. Point out that people like Robert Randolph are really not playing steel guitar. You can tell because, first of all, it's noise, and second he doesn't use the pedals.
5. Make sure they know that it is the duty of every pedal steel player to bicker endlessly with every other pedal steel player and that the only person who was really able to master the instrument was Buddy Emmons. They will never be as good as Buddy Emmons. They should get rid of that idea immediately.
6. The difference between JI and ET is worth having a knife fight over. Killing someone who doesn't agree with you is justifiable homicide.
7. And most importantly...just have fun!

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 19 Mar 2007 2:10 pm

99% of the younger crowed ( 40 & below ) would not know what music was if it bit them on the butt, all they want to listen to is racket, music has structure & melody , all they want is cussing , and thump thump thump, i have talked to some of them that play in bands and they don't have a clue how to do anything thats not distorted to the point that its unreconizable . they will not take the time required to learn what music is or how to play it
its easier to just make a racket and call it music
so i say to hell with them

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 19 Mar 2007 2:13 pm

If only Red River valley were in heavy rotation on MTV. Maybe if we wore scarry masks like Slipknot?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Mar 2007 2:13 pm

Mr. Walley makes my point.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Mar 2007 2:22 pm

I tend to agree with Bob Hoffnar. If you're looking at steel shows exclusively, you're not getting the complete picture.

My first steel guitar show I attended was ISGC in 1988, though there had been steel shows going on all over the country for years. I was always WORKING IN BANDS! When you're doing that, the band and the business takes precedence over a weekend jaunt that would cost $1000 or more. Not to mention that a musician's salary is predictably, and numbingly, low. And job security is poor, which leads to a feeling of insecurity about taking time off from the band, who may resent your weekend departure. There's all sorts of issues involved.

When I got my newspaper job, made some money, and realized my job would still be there if a took a long weekend off, I started attending the shows and I got hooked. At that time I was 40 years old and had been playing steel professionally for 20 years.

There's tons of steel players in Nashville and the rest of the country we all know of, and those we've never heard of, that never come to steel shows. Why? They're always on the road or working in bands. Many, many younger players. When these players mature, get other jobs that offer more security and free time, and have more disposable bucks to spend, we'll see them at shows more frequently.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Mar 2007 3:03 pm

1. If you want young people to take up steel guitar, someone has to use the instrument to play the kind of music young people are listening to, in the places where they are listening to it.

2. Move the conventions around the country. Zillions of organizations and professions of all types have annual national conventions and regional conventions. But they usually move the convention around to a different city each year precisely because not many people can afford to pay air fare and hotel costs, so everybody eventually gets to have a convention in their local area.

3. Taking the instrument to schools is a great idea. But "Mary Had a Little Lamb" isn't going to help anymore than "Way to Survive" will. You need to go into the high schools and play a wide variety of genres on the instrument. Some history of the instrument in Hawaiian, country, and western swing should be part of it, as well as classical, jazz, blues, rock, and especially including the kind of popular music high school kids actually like and listen to these days. By the way, in many cities you can put together a proposal and actually get paid good money to take such an educational program into schools.

I'm thinking none of this is going to be easy.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Mar 2007 3:32 pm

Move the conventions around the country.

Not to be considered a flame, David, but IMHO and in my experience working for the TSGA Jamboree, the second largest steel show currently in production, I couldn't possibly think of a more unrealistic suggestion for a promoter of a steel guitar show to receive.

Even staying in the same hotel for years requires a massive amount of planning, phone calls, contracts, negotiations, and footwork each year. MASSIVE AMOUNTS. To reinvent the wheel each year in a different city would require so much work, time, and expense that 1) it would be a full-time job for the promoter and his staff, 2) many people who now volunteer effort would be unavailable or have to be paid, 3) attendance would drop precipitously because the basically conservative-minded and up-in-years steel show attendees wouldn't like the hassle, and 4) it would require such a drastic increase in admission price that the bitchin' and moanin' could be heard into the next millenium.

The typical steel shows charge 60-75 dollars for admission to the entire event. Professional organizations often charge hundreds of dollars for attendance, in addition to membership fees, seminar charges, etc. It's a different scenario when dealing with professionals, as opposed to basically hobbyists and fans, like steel show attendees.

My wife was for years the Education Chairman of the International Veterinary Acupuncture Society, one of the "zillions" of organizations you mention. They held their conventions in two cities, in alternate years. Just her part of the work was so time-consuming and draining that she'd be burned out before the event ever took place. It was a volunteer position. To do what you suggest would require a professional staff and a large expense account.

Fuggedaboudit, dude.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 19 Mar 2007 4:04 pm

Mr. Jones makes my point.

Chris L. Christensen · Post by **Chris L. Christensen** » 19 Mar 2007 4:12 pm

My biggest disappointment in the steel shows is they tend to be mostly spectator events. There is little opportunity if any for less experienced players to play or to learn. The seminars that Doug Jernigan and others put on are excellent but they are expensive. I would hope that the various steel guitar organizations that put on these events would put more thought into making these events parcipatory rather than just opportunities for the pros to showboat. Yes, watching the pros perform is inspirational but there needs to be more opportunities for the average player to learn and play otherwise these events are little more than concerts and should be advertised and promoted as such.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 19 Mar 2007 4:56 pm

if you want to introduce the steel guitar to a younger crowd all you need to do is; go to your local campground set up and start playing on your site, from my experence you will have a crowd gathered round before your 1/2 thru your first number
but i still believe the problem is going to be that the young one's are to lazy to put in the time and effort it requires to learn it. they all want instant everything without any effort
thats why all they are capable of is racket

Jory Simmons · Post by **Jory Simmons** » 19 Mar 2007 5:13 pm

There is nothing boring about sitting in front of a Great steel player and LISTENING to what he (or She)is doing...if its not visual enough for you...Close your eyes...and pretend its Carrie Underwood , or Dinner , or something

Chris L. Christensen · Post by **Chris L. Christensen** » 19 Mar 2007 5:20 pm

No, there isn't anything boring about seeing a top steeler perform, but again steel shows would most likely be more effective if they weren't strictly spectator events. The steel guitar community needs to have a more nurturing and developing attitude. It could well be likely that the dearth of young players can be at least partly blamed on the fact that so little opportunity is given to those with less playing experience to learn and perform.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 19 Mar 2007 5:48 pm

The typical steel shows charge 60-75 dollars for admission to the entire event.

i have never been to a convention, so can someone tell me why i would pay $120.00-$150.00 ( me & wife )
just to get in the door,,hey i love the steel but to pay that much just so i can see a few pros showboating ??? i can sit at home and watch Joe Savage for nothing ( he is great ) the pros there are great too i'm sure, but come on... $120.00 just to see them ??? didn't fall off of that turnip truck

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 19 Mar 2007 6:15 pm

The word "hip" came up. As long as the music is rooted in 40s swing jazz ands the odd basa nova number, we are gonna remain in Laurence Welk land.

It doesn't mean that we all have to learn hip hop, but there are many new songs on the charts weekly. surely some of them can be interesting on the steel.

For that matter, I don't care if young people play steel. There will always be a small dedicated band of comb-over super-sized geezers to carry the torch. It's an exclusive clup, gang, and I am a proud member... -L-

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Mar 2007 6:38 pm

Herb Steiner wrote:
Move the conventions around the country.
Not to be considered a flame, David, but IMHO...I couldn't possibly think of a more unrealistic suggestion for a promoter of a steel guitar show to receive...Fuggedaboudit, dude.

I understand what you are saying, Herb. Like I said, the suggestions for getting more young people turned on to steel ain't easy.

I can certainly see the logic and convenience for Scotty to sponsor the St. Louis show every year right there in his home town in the center of the heartland. And the Dallas show certainly makes sense right there in the middle of Texas steel country. Those are two of the few places in the country where there is enough of a local or regional audience to guarantee an automatic success.

I wasn't really thinking so much of the professional society conventions (which charge a few hundred) as the car or boat or guitar shows that are paid for by the exhibitors and it costs the public a small amount to get in. Okay, there are not enough steel exhibitors for that, but maybe that could be combined with the performances, and the entrance fee could be more like for a concert. Of course, then the steel manufacturers would have to get that kind of promotion money somewhere, and they would have to raise prices on their products. So maybe it's impossible to move the conventions around. But having them where they are every year sure writes off the two coasts, where the bulk of the nations population is, and where the huge media outlets are, and where so many trends get started.

So this kind of thinking sort of unearths a number of problems that have to do with the lack of promotion of the instrument outside the small existing steel community. You see RR advertising Crate amps in guitar magazines, but you never see him or anyone else advertising steel guitars. Speaking of the manufacturers. Maybe none of them are thinking big enough. In addition to beginning to advertise in music magazines, maybe they should have some contests or talent searches with the idea of finding and sponsoring new young guns playing actual popular music on steel. Maybe they should be going to NAMM, guitar shows, that Fanfare thing in Nashville, etc.

Maybe the manufacturers can't (or don't want) to do it all. Maybe there needs to be a national or international organization of players, manufacturers, and fans for the purpose of publicizing and promoting steel guitar around the country and around the world. Is anyone serious enough about this for that?

So, there are lots of things that could be done. But none of them are easy.

Duane Becker · Post by **Duane Becker** » 19 Mar 2007 6:48 pm

If you want to get the younger kids involved then the steel has to be played in rap, metal, and new alternative music. That does not happen and until it does, then we will just get one or two new young players once in a while. We seem to have a big generation gap with the other folks looking down their nose at that type of music. Nothing new, how many of us had parents and grandparents that hated Elvis and the Beatles. I've always thought that the steel has been limited to just hawaiian, country and country swing-cow jazz. There seemed to be some head way in the 1970's with with pedal steel used in rock music. Emmons, Sneaky Pete, and others were doing some things in rock-but now really nothing except Robert Randolph and Rod Stewart using Cindy. But it still needs to be more. 50 years from now, where will the steel be?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 19 Mar 2007 9:46 pm

Don Benoit wrote: 1. Allow and advertise free entrance to steel conventions and shows for all young people under the age of 16.

Seriously, I think it would be better they don't see what goes on inside.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 19 Mar 2007 9:56 pm

Oh sh**! There's that Bovine candor we've all come to love and fear.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Mar 2007 10:23 pm

Mr. Walley, I would suggest you are speaking about a subject about which you have not the slightest clue.

Some of the "racket" you speak of is made by students that attend and graduate from the Guitar Institute of Technology in Hollywood - where composition and theory are huge parts of the curriculum. Many of these "noise" making kids know more music theory and have more technical competance than you will ever grasp.

It's "racket" and "noise" for THIS reason - YOU don't like it.

So why don't you stop insulting other musicians simply for stylistic differences, and just happily do what YOU do...and ignore them.

Certainly there are unschooled musicians playing metal or hardcore (do you know the difference?) - but there are the same unschooled musicians in ANY style of music. Probably some of your heros couldn't tell you what chord they were playing...but they could make it sound like heaven...to you.

I don't listen to much country. It's not my preference. But I have a ton of respect for the guys that play it well..and if they don't play it well, are at least respectful of other styles. For that mater, I'm not a metal fan either...but I probably know more about the study and work that goes into playing it *well* than I do country.

they all want instant everything without any effort
thats why all they are capable of is racket

I guess it's not so much insulting as it is sad. How someone can be so misguided and understand so little about today's musicians is beyond me. But that statement alone (and I could have quoted another 5 or 6 easily) is a perfect example of dislike for something turning someone into a liar. There's no polite way to say it - you do not know what you are talking about, and are making stuff up just to insult people.

It's really despicable.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 19 Mar 2007 10:50 pm

I am in addition to a steel guitar pick at it, a amatuer radio operator, however inactive. I read similar post as this one in that venue also. I also have gone to several blue grass concerts, I like the envitonment. However when I look arround there, they seem to have the same issue. Does it have something to do with wanting instant gratification. I don't know. Amatuer radio has made the same suggestions as to schools. Shockinly so have athesist, organized and un-organized religion and of course the winner so far evilloution.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 19 Mar 2007 11:21 pm

This thread is kind of spreading out, but not exactly off-topic (yet, anyway).

My thoughts:

There are always those who decry music of generations after them as "just noise", "not really music", etc. Some people who were into Haydn and Mozart (at the time) thought Beethoven was making ugly, un-musical noise. Traditionalists at the Grand Ole Opry were outraged that Hank Williams defiled the Opry stage with drums. Glenn Miller fans thought Elvis was uncouth, primitive ear abuse, Elvis fans thought Led Zeppelin was just noise. Closed minds are always with us.

I myself, for my personal purposes, hate the majority of music being made by younger people than me these days (I'm almost 56)--this in spite of the fact that I told myself when I was in my twenties that I would always be hip to what the kids were doing.

But I understand that simply means that I am getting older. Older people thought the music of my youth was crap, and it wasn't--they just couldn't hear it. I have to accept that the same may be true of me now. (I only say MAY be true!

)

What I need to believe, and do believe, is that, humans being human, music being fundamental to the human soul, quality music will never fail to have people who can HEAR it (let he/she who has ears to hear, hear it.)

Therefore Mozart, Coltrane, and Buddy Emmons playing "Way to Survive" will never die out as long as there are people.

And I don't give a rat's a** how many young people get into steel and what they play on it. That's their business, and I've got mine.

On the original thread topic: Dearly as I love the steel guitar and the traditions of country playing, and C6th "jazz" playing, I always seem to find the steel shows I've heard live or recorded unsatisfying and even depressing. I can't seem to articulate it, but somehow the ROLE of steel guitar in music seems stunted in these shows, no matter how spectacular or creative the work of the players may be. To use a probably stupid analogy, it's like sitting in a football stadium watching quarterbacks and receivers running passing drills for three hours, instead of watching a football game.

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I am very disappointed in steel guitar conventions and shows

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