SHO-BUD ID Pro-II vs Pro-II what the difference ?

William Fraser · Post by **William Fraser** » 16 Mar 2007 8:42 am

Can anyone tell me what distinguishes the pro-II from the pro-II custom? the custom ser no. is 16026 hasn't been played since 91, it has 6 knees my pro-II has 2. Just Curious,

Billy Lee

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 16 Mar 2007 9:57 am

Well, from what I have read from Ricky Davis and other Bud experts (who will hopefully chime in with more details), the Pro II was of course the earlier model. The earlier ones had round-front big bodies with twisted rope inlays, wide pedals, and red and white card symbol fret markers. The changers were 2&1. The last "pure" Pro IIs had two-hole pullers, and are reputed to have the best mechanics and tone of any Sho-Buds. The Pro II Custom had a square front with x inlays, and narrow pedals. The fret markers were all white. There was an early long body, and a later short body. They had Super Pro mechanics with inferior metal parts that wear quicker, fatigue and break easily; but that Bobbe Seymour has otherwise characterized as the most advanced and modern Bud mechanics. The changers were 3&2. However, there was an overlap period when some Pro IIs had some Super Pro parts, and some Pro II Customs had some Pro II parts. So you really have to look at the individual guitars.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Mar 2007 11:00 am

David, you covered it pretty well, especially with the disclaimer that many of the transition guitars of the mid-70's contained bits of both eras.

The "Custom" guitars, starting in 1975, were all square-fronts, to my best knowledge. But the first ones all had the two-hole puller system, curved headstock and coloured fretboard ("dust-catcher" 3-D style). The pot metal (and B&W fretboards) didn't come into play as a whole until 1977, although my '76 has a pot metal changer with the earlier two-hole puller system underneath. (If it has slots, it's pot metal.) Sho~Bud started pot metal use with its production of the Fender/Sho~Bud guitars in '76, and then used pot metal on all proceeding Sho~Buds.

This bit of info may help a bit as well:

From Duane Becker's Field Guide to Sho~Bud guitars:

THE PRO SERIES

Sho-Bud introduced the Pro Series in late 1973 with the Pro-II. Although the Pro-I had been around for some time, considered by many to be just a single neck Professional, it was soon called the Pro-I. The Pro-I was standard first with three pedals and one knee lever. The Pro-I and II were a very popular pedal steel for Sho-Bud. The undercarriage featured rods and bellcranks that replaced the baskets. The early Pro-I used a single raise-single lower changer with any additional raise or lower of the same string provided by a tuning collar on the rod. The Pro-II had a double raise-single lower changer. In 1975, Sho-Bud introduced the Pro-III featuring metal necks. The standard changer on the Pro-III was a double raise-double lower. Also, in 1975, the Pro Series body designed changed from a rounded body front to a square front. This was the start of the Pro/Custom series. Also during this time a new nylon rod tuning changer was introduced on the Pros. This enabled the player to tune all of the pedal/knee raises and lowers at the right end plate which was a great improvement over the changer and undercarriage of the past. As was stated, the Pro-I had been around a number of years before the Pro-II and Pro-III. In the early 1970's, Sho-Buds suggested price list for the Pro-I was $995. In 1976 the Pro-I Custom listed $895 retail. Gretsch in 1981 listed the Pro-I for $1450. The Pro-II in the early 70's listed at $1595. In the 1976 catalog the Pro-II was $1595 retail and the 1981 Gretsch catalog suggested price was $2120. The Pro-III first produced in 1975, had a retail price of $1795 for the Pro-III Custom in 1976, and Gretsch listed it for $2350 in 1981.

SUPER PRO

In 1977, the Super Pro was introduced. It was standard as a double wood or metal neck, with 8 pedals and 6 knee levers. This model and the Fender/ShoBud was very similar in design except for the body and the key head. The Super Pro had a streamlined-smaller and thinner body design then the Sho-Bud models of the past. Also, the undercarriage pretty much the same as the Fender/Sho-Bud model, was very different then the past Sho-Bud models. The cross rods on the past models were round. On the Super Pro they were hex shaped. The bell cranks and pedal rods were also of a new design. Small metal tuning rod clips were used to hold the tuning rods onto the bell crank. The floor pedals on the Super Pro were small narrow pedals that had a very different look then the past wide pedal design. The knee lever design changed as well, to a straight narrow lever. The tuning key head was square and blunt on the end instead of the old standard tear drop key head of the past. Clearly, Sho-Bud had a new pedal steel. This new undercarriage design was very popular. After the introduction of the Super Pro, the undercarriage designs of the Pro-Series and the LDG pedal steels changed to the Super Pro style. When the Super Pro was first introduced in 1977, the retail price was $2175. Gretsch in 1981 listed the Super Pro at $2850.

William Fraser · Post by **William Fraser** » 17 Mar 2007 4:36 am

Thanks guys, I know quite a bit more than I did now. some how I lucked out & got a pro-II, although I think I'm gonna regret selling my pro-I. If I could ask one more thing, the pedal action on the pro-I is alittle softer & easier than the II ,can I loosen the screws on the endplate? go to lighter strings? what books do you reccomend ? thanks Bill

Marc Weller · Post by **Marc Weller** » 17 Mar 2007 8:11 am

My Pro II Custom has the two hole pullers and slots on the changer fingers so I'm assuming the latter are pot metal. Is the issue with the pot metal fingers tone or breakage? There is a conspicuous absence of grooves on my changer fingers (unlike my modern instrument with aluminum fingers)which I would attribute to the chrome finish on the pot metal. I would see this as an advantage. Comments? Is it worth the investment in replacement fingers ? I finally have this guitar dialed in and it's my main gig instrument these days. Is there further room for improvement ?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 17 Mar 2007 3:07 pm

Marc,

That guitar just slays me. I had it in my sites when it was for sale here in Canada. I'll always have a thing for that beauty. And the case with the zip-up cover? Very cool.

Sounds like it's just right to me. I wouldn't do anything with it. The pot metal changer is just fine, especially if it has little wear. Mine's pot metal, and works and sounds great. The earlier changers had the pin for the string end, which some say had better tone. But I wouldn't fix anything that ain't broken. Sounds like you have a honkin' 'Bud there now. Congrats on getting all the issues sorted out.

Having said that, Coop makes great replacement "super fingers" with an added capacity for lower and raise. I saw them in Texas, and they're great if you ever feel the need to upgrade.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 17 Mar 2007 3:45 pm

One of the main differences between the first generation ProII and the ProII Custom was in the way the rods and pullers operated.
On the ProII's, the rods were attached to brass barrels which were behind the rod pullers (sometimes called the bell cranks). At the changer end of the rod was a fixed hex end, so that when you tuned a raise or lower you were actually turning the rod itself which turned the brass barrel, thereby tuning the pull.
On the Custom the rod was attached by a screw or clip to the rod puller and at the changer end the rod was threaded and there's a nylon hex nut which is what screws in or out to tune the pull.
There were a few versions of the Customs, and there are some other differences between them, but I believe only the first-gen models had the brass barrels.

William, I don't think lighter gauge strings are going to solve your action problem. That would most likely foul things up with your pedal stops. You might try experimenting with which hole the rod is attached to on the rod puller, and which hole on the changer the rod goes through. I may have this wrong, but I believe that if you attach the rod to the holes furthest from the body (on the rod pullers), you'll have an easier action, but a longer throw. And visa-versa.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 17 Mar 2007 5:13 pm

William,

Sho~Buds have two attachment points on the pedals for the rods. If you move to the set of holes closer to the pedal bar, you will find the action to be much softer.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 17 Mar 2007 5:15 pm

Wow, Mike..........I'm ashamed to say it's the first time I noticed that.

Thanks.......

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 17 Mar 2007 7:49 pm

Chris,

Just another of those subtle tweaks available on the so called limited mechanics of the Sho~Bud.

Art Beard · Post by **Art Beard** » 17 Mar 2007 7:56 pm

The Pro II I just got has a round front, S/N 6195. Appears to have rods and barrels, but the front says Pro II with custom underneath it.Just two holes in the changer for the metal looking adjusters. Also wide pedals. Confused Art

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 17 Mar 2007 9:25 pm

Sho-Buds have always overlapped certain parts and features from model to model. It's not all that unusual. They pretty much just kept on using the old parts they had in the bins untill they ran out....or at least that's the way I understand it.

If your gtr has a round front, barrels and fixed metal hex ends on changer end of the rods, then it sounds like a ProII that they just slapped one of the new decals on.

William Fraser · Post by **William Fraser** » 18 Mar 2007 6:13 am

Thanks , again for all the info keep it coming! It seems to me that I did move to different holes to get my pro-I to play the way I like it ,It's been 9 or 10 yrs . Travis , let me know what you think when it gets there. my pro-II will need the same it plays beautifully & the tone is what you would expect. the Custom in question is one I have tried to buy since 1991 it has been sitting untouched since it's owner passed on it is beautiful, but it sounds as tho I got the better instrument Billy Lee