The Ideal Non-Pedal Steel

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 12 May 2006 11:48 am

I'm the CFO of an Electrical Engineering company. We build High-Voltage electrical equipment. I'm also a steel-guitar afficianodo.

We have access to a laser machine-center. We can cut metal into any shape.

The CEO and I are both musicians, and we've been thinking of building both electric and acoustic instruments using the laser machine. I noticed the Industrial Instruments (Fouke) website, and he seems to be building aluminum laptops (and others) that screw together using a few components, but his laptops seem to be mostly 6 string, wheras most steel guitarists want 8 strings, and he used an L-shaped metal bridge, whereas I would prefer a roller bridge.

Before we go ahead, I'm interested in the feedback of members.

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 12 May 2006 12:14 pm

well, if you ever decide to make fretboards
scaled at 22 1/2" I will certainly order a few.
I am making lap steels and found the fret board to be my weakest component.

Ive wanted a metal fretboard with inlay markers and fret lines. I was thinking a metal laser cutter would be the perfect tool.

keep us here on the forum posted of your plans for steels ....and...fretboards.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 12 May 2006 8:38 pm

ALAN, roller bridges are almost a necessity on pedal steels...but are not such a critical item on lap steels. The shorter scales e.g.(22.5in.) are popular because of decreased string breakage at high tensions,and because many bar slant positions are more accurate in the lower end of the scale. Conversely,longer scales,such as the 25in., yield clearer harmonics,longer sustaining notes and accurate slants higher on the neck. Also,(and this is a radical opinion,I know)I believe most 6-string steels are bought by beginners and people who don't know much about steel guitars. But you have to remember that they are customers too,and that,in the right hands,lots of good music can be played on a 6-string steel. It also appears that,right now, there is a trend toward lap & console steels with more strings than there was a few years ago. Just food for thought!
~~W.C.~~[This message was edited by Wayne Cox on 12 May 2006 at 09:45 PM.]

Dan Sawyer · Post by **Dan Sawyer** » 12 May 2006 10:04 pm

I agree about roller bridges. You will probably find that there's more sustain without one.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 12 May 2006 11:13 pm

Sounds like a great idea, or at least you should consider making components like fretboards. Those would go over in a big way. Roller bridges would not, however, be a good use of time for non-pedal guitars. Coming up with a good, Sierra type spaced 8 string that was reasonably affordable would likely make you a very popular guy. I will be looking forward to hearing more!

Donald Ruetenik · Post by **Donald Ruetenik** » 13 May 2006 8:18 am

I would say to start with, offer parts for makers; especially the 'cottage' manufacturers. These could include nuts, bridges, coverplates and 'routed' fretboards (that can be painted) for 8 and 10 string instruments.

A lot of the 6 string steels are made with 'off the shelf' guitar parts. Those of us that make 8 and 10 string steels have to fabricate our own parts. Some of us would prefer to concentrate on the wood.

Greg Pettit · Post by **Greg Pettit** » 13 May 2006 9:40 am

I agree with the above post. My 6-stringer was a bit trickier than most because I had to fabricate a bridge for it; but now that I'm planning an 8-string, I'm finding a real lack of parts. Making them isn't really all that "difficult," it's just an extra step I'd rather avoid.

Greg

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 13 May 2006 11:07 am

Beware of metal guitars. I play alot of outdoor venues. They don't stay in tune!!!!

Andy Hinton · Post by **Andy Hinton** » 13 May 2006 11:17 am

It' been my experience that neither do wooden ones, unless you have a portable a/c unit blowing directly on the instrument. Andy H.
,

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 13 May 2006 1:16 pm

All good points. On lap steels that I've built recently, (and they've all been wooden so far), I've used 1/2" or 3/8" brass tube which has been threaded on the outside to make bridges and nuts. The advantage is that you can adjust the string spacing or configuration very easily.

Metal fingerboards wouldn't be much of a problem. Our laser can cut all the way through or etch, and you can cut a lot of fingerboards out of one sheet of metal. The metal that we use to build high voltage electrical equipment is mostly stainless steel, and that would make for a very heavy instrument. Aluminum or brass would be lighter, but brass would need to be plated as it goes green very quickly.

I haven't tried a metal instrument yet, so I didn't realise that the expansion would put them out of tune. Do the Fouke instruments go out of tune ?

I know here in California we have problems with temperature variations. I used to play the lute a lot, but if you don't slacken off the gut strings at night, contraction can pull the bridge off, so I tend to leave the lute in its case and play the cittern, which has steel strings and can be tuned the same.

Expansion and contraction in heat effects all string instruments, no matter what they're made of. I understand that in the 40s one of the motivations for building bakelite instruments was to try and combat expansion.

I would think that a double 8-string configuration would be the most acceptable to the most customers. I'm attracted to the Hipshot Trilogy multiple-tuning bridges that allow for accurate tuning changes on the fly. I understand that they make them in 8-string configuration to special order.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 13 May 2006 1:59 pm

Beware of metal guitars. I play alot of outdoor venues. They don't stay in tune!!!!

Plus ... they really hurt when you drop 'em on your toes ... especially the bronze ones

I understand that in the 40s one of the motivations for building bakelite instruments was to try and combat expansion.

Actually that was first done in 1935 ... and it didn't seem to help the problem much ...

I lived and played in So. Florida ... usin' a JB Frypan ... for many years.

I was always just a "tweak away" ... no biggie ... even when it was "Africa Hot" ... which was 9 months outta the year ...

------------------

Slants of the Week
Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 13 May 2006 at 03:07 PM.]

Nathan Hernandez · Post by **Nathan Hernandez** » 13 May 2006 4:43 pm

strings through the body.

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 16 May 2006 8:29 am

Many sets of Mandolin tuning keys are 4 to a side, like 8-string steels, and can be purchased in different grades of quality and appearance. If you make D-8's remember to make the front neck slightly elevated in relation to the back neck,even on lap steels.
~~W.C.~~

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 16 May 2006 9:58 am

Ditto what Wayne says on the elevation of the back neck. Also make sure the knobs for vol/tone are convenient for those of us who try to do the Speedy West tricks, and get the strings high enough up off the fretboard- I have played a couple of different lap guitars where the bar hit the body in the middle of the strings from the height being too low.

Greg Pettit · Post by **Greg Pettit** » 16 May 2006 11:47 am

Sorry to go partially off-topic, but where do people find the most convenient location for vol/tone? I thought mine was going to be conveniently placed when I built it, but it's not. I wonder if I could've put it somewhere better.

Greg

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 16 May 2006 2:07 pm

I sure agree about availability of good fretboards. I just discovered that a plastic one I bought last year is off about 1/8 inch at the twelfth fret, and way-off at fret #24. I'm making my own after this.
A nice metal type would be a great item to market.

Arthur Herrmann · Post by **Arthur Herrmann** » 16 May 2006 5:53 pm

Got an Industrial Dan Walsh Fry Pan model, it holds its tuning beautifully. Actually was in tune when I took it out of its shipping box. Foulke does make 8 strings as well.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 17 May 2006 4:24 pm

The best place for volume and tone controls and any other switches that you want to add is, to my mind, at the end of the instrument, in a recess. My pedal steel has the cable plug-in underneath, and sometimes it dangles on my knee. The worst place is on top right where you pick. Since different people pick in different places, I think the whole area from the end of the fingerboard to the bridge should be kept clear of knobs and sockets.

Greg Pettit · Post by **Greg Pettit** » 17 May 2006 5:17 pm

Mine are on the side rather than the top (it was thick enough), so they're plenty out of the way, but it's tricky to reach my pinkie down there for volume swells when my pedal isn't handy.

I was "this" close to putting the jack on the bottom, but then decided that on the side with an angled jack would be fine, too.

In any event, the Leslie West effects referred to were volume swells and "fake wah" kinds of things, right? I was just sort of guessing, from the context of the statement. So what I really meant, though your answer is totally true as well, was where would one situate them for such effects?

Greg

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 18 May 2006 2:27 am

Speedy West (not Leslie, Mountain never used steel to my knowledge) used the wah type effect with the tone knob. Putting the controls at the end of the guitar would make it very difficult to do that. Take a look at our beloved Fender steels for a good idea of where they need to be.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 May 2006 7:59 am

The metal that we use to build high voltage electrical equipment is mostly stainless steel, and that would make for a very heavy instrument. Aluminum or brass would be lighter...

Aluminum...yes, it's much lighter than steel, but brass is heavier (though only slightly) than most any type of steel.

Aluminum...165 lbs./cu.ft.
Steel......495 lbs./cu.ft.
Brass......535 lbs./cu.ft.

Greg Pettit · Post by **Greg Pettit** » 18 May 2006 10:01 am

Why the heck did I say Leslie West? <chuckle>

Arthur Herrmann · Post by **Arthur Herrmann** » 27 May 2006 12:24 pm

Or was it James T. West?